Upkeep of ships

Currently we have a 10 credit upkeep per hour. It feels way too low and it does not take into account the size of the ship. Further a good sized planet of around 1 million population would be able to support around 500 ships and 500 battleships at that, why build smaller…

i propose that the cost be 1% of the credits cost to build the ships.

e.g. scout is 890 credits to build so the upkeep should be 8.9 credits an hour.
e.g. battleship is around 12000 credits so the upkeep should be 120 an hour.

I also propose that ships in fleets reduce upkeep by 25%

I further propose that ship and fleets in orbit incure a further 25% reduction to upkeep (so stacked to 50% reduction)

So 5 battleships in outer space and not in a fleet would be 500 credits per hour
in a fleet it would be 375 credits per hour
in a fleet and in orbit 250 credits per hour (500/375/250)

so back to the good sized planet it would only be able to support 40 (80 in orbiting fleet) battleships or 130 destroyers (260 in orbiting fleets)

I can get behind something like this.

Yeah makes a lot of sense. Provided the initial costs are still balanced, it should translate nicely.

Gives power to the player, do I really need to spend 10k on this ship for those extra ‘bits and bobs’ which will buff the upkeep. Maybe some specific modules could incur a slightly higher cost?

Could help to balance the PR late game too ^

My Syntis destroyer costs 10k to produce, so 100/h as upkeep… dunno…
Maybe a hull based price would make sense, as prices can vary quite a bit for the same hull.

Reviving this age old topic. I hadn’t paid attention to the fact that fleet upkeep had been discontinued. Let’s all restart this discussion on this thread.

Good for you to find it so quickly!

Yeah a credit expense that ties to fleets & maybe even Planets (IE a Corruption penalty) Seems ever so logical and time tested to me.

@DeicidE’s original idea here has a lot going for it of course the numbers could be tweaked as I cant recall if this was posted pre or post Dreadnought release? Those whales could skew his original numbers badly.

Also this is such a good way to introduce racial flavour as differing races could get a bonus on maintenance. I’m looking at you Toasters, don’t routine maintenance is a trivial task for the Syntis as much as hoovering the carpet would be for us today, so they ought to have a cheaper price than some, for example.

That said the Toasters don’t need too many more bonuses on their already formidable ships! But it would need to be allowed for somehow.

@Nolenaoir. What are your thoughts here please?

I feel like I replied to this idea already, but I will put it here again.

For control of fleet size, you have to use food (imho). You have to be able to put the planetary population that the fleets are orbiting around at risk without a large and expensive storage and supply operation. Ideally, you want to force players to have fairly static (due to the time and costs involved in building it) staging areas for fleets.

This will do two things:

  1. It will force players to plan ahead (a lot in the case of a large invasion) thus giving the opportunity for real intelligence.
  2. The real intelligence will allow for other players to adjust, creating the chess like moves that MMORTS games are best loved for.
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Define “food” we don’t have anything that represents “food” as a resource in game. It’s closest equivalent would be “credits”. Planets have “farms” which provide the “food” for all the planet’s occupants (ie workforce employed or not).

All structures, including shipyards have a workforce which is taken from the population. If you’re suggesting another structure, which would require more workforce, this would mean your population and their associated farms that provide the “food” would be required to be adequate to support the structure.

All planets have limitations on the amount of population (and resulting workforce) they can support as well based on size, land mass and the civ in question.

If you can convert your suggestion to fit within these general parameters of the current game’s design, then maybe I can better understand.

Precisely. So, adding the manpower value of the ships to the “planetary workforce” would account for this.

Instead of using it as a form of upkeep, what I would do is just add a value to the ship hull cost and module cost for population.

That scout? Might need 10-25 population to run, its small.
That Dreadnought? Might need 2000 population before you start adding in all those modules.

@Cheatle and @Nolenaoir this would be compatible with assigning fleet captains and crew to a ship which has been suggested elsewhere.

My biggest question is if the “crew” is counted as part of the workforce, what happens when they are out of the planet’s orbit, flying in space exploring, moving freight, etc or at some distant unoccupied system in war? How do you “feed” them there? Though we have “farms” on our planets, we should be advanced enough to have replicators aboard ships, thus no need for “food”, only the energy and/or resource to produce it. And Syntis are robots, so I doubt they eat “food”.

I think it’s best we just stick with the upkeep cost suggestion as it seems more appropriate overall. If we ever are able to “crew” a ship and that “crew” provides a useful purpose other than just it’s existence, we should take a look at this further, I wouldn’t consider it an immediate priority or one useful in removing the fleet cap limitation.

Yeah we don’t want to turn this into the Oregon Trail of space travel. Though stopping off at planets to hunt food might be funny…

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I am not worried about food, I think that that is something that we don’t really need to worry about.

However, I could see crew as part of the cost of ships, and taking up space on the work force, again its another strategic choice without a lot of extra work. If they die on the battlefield, eventually your pop will grow again, and you can build ships. It also encourages shipyards on large planets, which adds another level of strategy.

I don’t think we need to be counting food at all, because that starts getting a little too much 4X I think.

I agree on the “food” issue. That was more for @Nolenaoir than you.

I don’t mind a crew either, I’d just like them to have a truly useful purpose if we’re going to utilize them. They would have to be similar to assault troops, trained in whatever specialty they might have and once removed and placed aboard a fleet, are no longer tied to the planet’s population and are no longer taxable. Otherwise you’d have no planet to attach them to (at least not easily). I see this as a feature that won’t affect the fleet limits, but could enhance the game long term.

I was thinking more of a strategic resource overall for the population.

I would agree, if they have a useful purpose having them trained and ready for deployment would be very useful.

Fleet admirals/ship captains/crew is a good idea too, since you can limit the total power of a fleet they are capable of effectively commanding.

This also gives you the advantage of later adding experience to crews improving ship combat stats of a given ship based on experience level.