To Seek out new Boldly Goers

Alright, well they laid out their dilemma for us in no uncertain terms, if you have not read this Current Priorities & Role of the Community and you read these forums STOP and go do that now then please return here.

So this I hope is a brainstorming thread, our Devs (yes I did mean to use the possessive!) need stuff tested, but if folks don’t stick around then they cant get data and they cant see HOW this Magnum Opus is gonna make them money.

Now I know several of us have been skating close to our personal limits on weather we want to carry on here you all know I have but anyone that’l bare their concerns like they just did is OK in my book and has my respect. So the question is:

How do we get more players that are alert to the needs of an Alpha and how do we keep them?

Opening suggestion: If they send out multi thousand invites as their graph showed and 95% of them tail off after a month or two, maybe those players are not really getting whats needed here. Therefore: consider each Alpha player that has survived 3 months is able to issue a direct invite, just one. with the idea it should go to a friend or acquaintance they know personally, to whom they have explained what is needed here…! One invite per 3 months maximum and only to folks that are time served.

Thoughts? Naturally as that’s my idea I exempt myself from it so there can be no thought I am trying to build some sort of personal empire or mates block.

C’mon I know all the regulars names here do I have to tag you in?! Lets bounce some ideas about and show the team that now we have been told of a concern we’re willing to look for specific answer to it

I found no answers for myself in this new diary. No word on the fact that the game is too much Economics and too little PVP. Alas. Well, that’s my subjective opinion. To postpone the game until better times, if something will significantly change in the concept in the direction of increasing dynamics and PVP, then it will be interesting to try this project. Until-alas. Too much farm.

I appreciate your honesty Yarri. But if the next phase of the game was to turn to testing the combat/PvP your happy to jump in yes?

That’s fair we all have preferences, if at some point a “War Galaxy” or a specific test of fighting power was set to roll out we could count on you yes?

@Joe maybe that’s a good thing to include on any future survey, ask folks what they would be interested in testing specifically. no just what there play-style was? Some of us are willing to go the whole thing but rather than cause “burn out” of a partial game that is as yet missing a feature close to their hearts. Folks like Yarri here could be emailed and asked to participate in a specific iteration of the game maybe? Is that feasible? Can you flag our accounts with a “Prefers: Combat/Exploring/Farming/Trading etc” annotation without grievously increasing your paperwork?

The thing is I guess to get the Devs the data they need when they need it not when we’d like to see it (I am aware of the irony of ME saying this - sue me) If most of the “Battlemasters” have quit by the time that comes around it slows the whole thing back down again. On the other hand if they are instead in a reserve and willing to reactivate their accounts when needed, so much the better.

It’s simple. As stated in the blog, many leave the game because they think the game is too difficult. It’s probably the first few days. But there are those who leave after the game a month or more. I played for almost three months. The reasons I stopped playing are mentioned above. I love military strategy and I don’t like economic planners. These are purely subjective preferences.

Yeah i think it’s not going to be a simple thing to tackle. Because yes there are some that as they later found out simply quit right off the bat because there was an initial hick-up with loading the game and they weren’t interested/willing to do even a little digging to deal with it, and that isn’t that unexpected i suppose unless they were REALLLLLY digging the idea of the game rather then just kinda ah that might be kinda sorta interesting. Then you have the folks that found it difficult due the game not being really intuitive.

Some of this can be fixed with better tool tips, and/or tutorials, and perhaps some of it will just have to be a really intuitive UI that really speaks to folks. Now i can’t tell you what that means for MOST folks because well to be honest thats just way to subjective, so how’s that for a conundrum? Have to do the best they can with that one, and we have to do the best we can to assist on that front.

Honestly, and this is in no way a dig/slight upon the devs or the state of the game in regard to how long its been in development or anything like that, but i really think before they focus on trying to get more people onboard with testing, and thus potentially any more word of mouth that may potentially turn more people away from even bothering, if thats possible, is to give it some more time and do some more work as they are at the moment. Now i’m not saying that combat has to be super jazzy before they start trying to get more people on board, but we need to be sure that it is easier to communicate in game, perhaps easier to form groups in game even. We certainly need to have the wiki in better shape up to date as things are being updated so it’s always as up to date as possible. I for one LOVE being able to have as much information as possible about a game when i’m trying to figure it out. Okay what race do i want to try and play, what ships do they have, how do they compare to other races, what are the relative strengths and weaknesses and not just in a very vague “they are the best, or second best kinda explanation”. What techs do they have and what exactly do they do and to what degree do they impact things? I know not everyone is the same, BUT if the information is there folks that want it can get it, and those that arn’t as intersted know it’s there even if they don’t always feel the need to dig real deep into everything. They know it’s there at their fingertips, or that they can readily get in touch with someone in game chat, or message someone in game perhaps.

Another thing that i think is going to be important is that people need to feel like they aren’t in a bubble of nothingness that makes all their efforts essentially meaningless. Sure you’ve got those of us, not at all speaking of my self OH NO, that are still okay just poking around checking stuff out and exploring but most folks are going to want to have neighbors to be friendly, OR NOT, with. I don’t want to be alone forever either, but i can understand why many folks probably get bored after a month or so and just give up. They’ve built up and then all they do is log in once in a while and thats really all there is to do. I mean really all i HAVE to do is log in and queue up stuff here and there, and here and there i’ll go on exploration spree’s to expand my spreadsheet, but i’m not quite as busy as when i first started and i was micromanaging everything. It’s just not the same once you’ve establishing yourself somewhat. Particularly if you have no one nearby like myself. I HAD one neigbhor which i was friendly with, and i suspect he has since quit because i havn’t seen so much as a fleet sailing through open space in nearly two weeks now :frowning:

So yeah i think it’ll take a little more stuff being put in place to make it a little more inviting before we can really expect to be able to retain more folks, at least i hope. As things start getting more interesting with folks being closer together and more player interaction, econonomically and/or militarily i suspect things will start looking up.

To be honest, the game isn’t DIFFICULT really, it’s just that there’s simply a lack of readily available information so people can put the pieces together relativity quickly. They don’t realize that i’m going to need to find new sources of farsu/lymbalt.etc etc rather quickly because as things stand i’ll deplete them VERY quickly. Honestly i think the rate of depleting surface deposits is ridiculously too fast, particularly with the lack of knowledge that they really are such scare commodities and you can really get in a bind quickly if you don’t start getting yourself set up quickly. New players obviously won’t have any clue about this and then start running out of resources and then start needing deep mining technology which they then don’t have and can’t access for quite some time so then they are bogged down and this will really put a damper on a new players mood. It hit me in the gut as i got hit in the face like it was a mac truck, but i figured it out and muscled through it because i’m a stubborn ass mule unlike a lot of gamers. But you’ll lose a lot of folks in that kind of transition. I don’t entirely agree with the reasoning of planets being so quick to deplete before going into deep mining with the exception of beron and typically olizine. I mean i literally ran out of resources in my home systems, on the habitable planets within 5 days. I had built a very SMALL number of puny ships. When one considers the amount of junk we’ve built out of the resources we’ve mined from our own planet through the years and we then compare that to what we can imagine the resources going into building like i think it was like 8 ships or so before i ran out of the capacity to build ships it just seems a little out of whack, but thats just me i guess. But that in part also comes back to my wondering what end game goals, or just goals in general will be. I envision one of the simplest things to be fighting over is planets, because what has mankind been fighting over for thousands of years when it gets right down to brass tacks? Resources. Well with planets being so easy to depelete it’s kind of hard to justify fighting over planets really. At this point in the game at any rate, economically speaking, war makes absolutely no sense in the least so i think that’ll bear some scrutiny as well. But thats just my 2 coppers on the matter :slight_smile:

Two things-

  1. I think the people that quit right away really didn’t realize they were signing up for an Alpha. In the current gaming scene with Early-Access and some games that live in beta I can see why people might expect a more polished product. To me, we need a more closed alpha. People that join should expect to be testers, not players. (That, at least in part, also means that we needed to be treated more as testers than players.) In past when I’ve participated in alpha/beta games there was typically a set of questions asking about testing experience, and making it very clear that the game wasn’t polished.

  2. At one point we had the call-to-arms program. I think that was a decent idea where players could share a referral link to friends to get them into the game. Having some level of hook into the community should give people more incentive to stick around.

By limiting alpha to more “hardcore” players we can iron out core features and functions. Getting the tutorial set seems to be more of a late beta goal. Since most features would be set by that point you would only need to make the tutorial once.

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This is the exact point. its NOT hard really, ok harder than some were expecting sure, I agree that some folks arrived with misapprehensions. I spoke to several that couldn’t EVER recall having signed up for it…

So rewind: IDA how about a fresh recruiting drive that is made from either referrals as I suggested or to the wider game community via adverts on FB or other publications maybe?

I remember that. But I thought it was just for BETA access…? Maybe I am wrong. Now folks that have signed up Should definitely be given the opportunity no argument. But I submit they a carefully worded cover note needs to be added to new Keys , perhaps even including a dynamic check box stating they accept what the game is likely to be…

I keenly felt the Devs point about not wanting to get a bad rep when the game launches if too many folks try it and walk. That’ll kill it I agree. I would further submit that the longer its around the more it’ll gain a ghostly reputation so fixing it up and recasting what the games state is to something realistic cant happen fast enough.

This is also true. See Star Citizen. The biggest (vaporware) scam out there. At least the upside to Outscape is the lack of crowd-funding (and pay-to-win).

See i find it hard to fathom folks really not understanding the difference between beta, early access, and alpha, particularly an alpha that you have to get offered a key simply to gain access to. Yes nowadays all the tablet/phone games are EVER BETA GAMES, because for legal reasons once they go out of beta it’s harder for them to close up shop and rip people off or some such nonsense or so i recall reading at some point in some distant past. But seriously ALPHA IS ALPHA…sigh. Makes my brain bleed trying to wrap my head around folks legitimately trying to convince me their pea brains can’t grasp the difference…but hey now i’m being mean i suppose :frowning:

Sure a game can’t stay in the shadows tooooooo long and remain relevant IF it has any competition that’s going to cause it harm, but last time i checked there weren’t really many games aiming for the same targets as outscape so i’m not sure it’ll be quite the same dilema on that front so long as they are able to keep developing it at the pace they need to both get it done the way they want it to end up and to give it time to get in a shape to present to next wave of testers to maximize chances of retaining testers. Not sure how many times you can pass the hat around asking for testers before fewer and fewer nibble, but i couldbe wrong. Could just find different people each and every time you go looking for a new crop for all i know as i don’t really know how the dynamics work.

Is Star Citizen still going? Oh yes I note they boast over 2 million folks that(Quote) “…will be able to explore the stars with unparalleled immersion” Good for them someday. Pass.

Now we disagree on the crowd funding, slightly. Promise of shinys wont make me get out my credit card but to support something I believed in yes yes I would and have. Though I think @odis said it well here that a subscription income model might make more sense in the long run. Just don’t contaminate it with F2P folks. Let it be In or Not in if your sub is active please, no second class players on F2P.

Yep its Alpha please lets get in a raft more folks but just those that can roll with some of the punches, and Puhlease treat us as TESTERS not “Just players” that’ll head off all kinds of issues.

Once we get a first draft on social features I betcha half a dollar the metric showing folks that drop the game would look radically different. I mean getting some social help from the old farts in here as they play without the need to use a third party app even like (the very worthy) discord…

This issue with Crowd funding is that it seems to encourage devs to stay perma-beta. Why release a full game when you can get paid to release half a game? Don’t ever deliver the goods, well good news everybody, you still get to keep the cash you made.

To me, crowd-funding and early access has turned into a way to shift risk from the production house to, well, my house. Now, don’t get me wrong here, I’m not saying that all crowd-funding is bad. For small or indie studios it might be the only way to actually finish a project.

The issues with early access and crowd funding become even more concerning the longer a game stays in beta. One wonderful example was Ark. How in the name of Ponda Baba did they think it was a good idea to release a DLC for an early access game???

The gaming industry has long lacked any form of return for a customer, and it’s pushed more and more risk to the customer with early access, preorders, etc. Add in that games are released in a stripped down manner only to have what should be core content added as DLC.

If Outscape were to put together a crowd-funding round then I’d want to see it limited to only providing a copy of the game (and maybe an in-game skin or mention). No actual in-game perks. Also, I would want to have a definite release date and the option for a refund if that date is missed.

Maybe he better idea would be to just set up a tip jar. Something where people can contribute what they feel the game is worth at this point, without an expectation of a return.

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I have had to explain to people that having an open window causes their furnace to not heat so well… every year i have at least 1 and there is no way to reason with them until i actually get them angry enough to call someone else, who inevitably tells them the same thing… i had one tenant who didnt understand why her gas bill was 7k even though she hadnt paid a single bill in 6 months with her window open. the hole that is stupidity has no bottom. because no one believed me, i even had to lure her outside to an area where i could legally record her as she yelled at me that it was a bill she shouldnt have to pay. when i tell you there are a large number of people you wont reach, i am not kidding and the efforts made by the devs should be respectful of that.

i honestly feel that the game starts off to slow for some players. when we first start, there is almost nothing to do. it maybe wise to open up a 2nd galaxy that moves at 10 or 20 times the pace with some other limitations that players can just go nuts in.

Agreed. Which is why worrying about people leaving so quickly after starting really shouldn’t be a big concern with an alpha. However, if the concern is them complaining or giving Outscape a bad review then we should be better scoping the alpha invites.

Alpha should be the hardcore testers. Beta that should be relaxed a bit. GA is when the casual players get to come in.

Also, this is where the idea of early access scares me. If people pay for a product, even if it is early access they tend to expect a good value. If the value isn’t there then the negative reviews will come in droves.

[quote=“Zathabar, post:11, topic:4038, full:true”]Though I think @odis said it well here that a subscription income model might make more sense in the long run. Just don’t contaminate it with F2P folks. Let it be In or Not in if your sub is active please, no second class players on F2P.
[/quote]

lol i did say that but if we are all being honest, id rather buy a $50 game i had a chance to demo and not pay another fee, but i understand the need to be flexible here.

agreed. A one off fee would be best of all but I was just trying to think of acceptable options… :slight_smile:

Here I am. :laughing:

Indeed you are. Welcome to the game, such as it is!
A fresh perspective will be very interesting!