Just curious why the Syntis are so popular. It seems 2/3 of the players I run into are playing Syntis. Even the leader board is full of Syntis near the top.
I suspect their popularity is because they don’t have to deal with happiness, which is why I initially picked them. They’re also generally well-rounded, shipwise. Not especially good or bad at anything. They’re also, I think it’s fair to say, the hardest race to invade because they tend to have very high populations which means lots of room for military bases plus their natural base 1.5x combat modifier.
Syntis near the top is, I believe, a consequence of what I consider to be “the dual population exploit.”
Syntis main disadvantage is that their tax rate is fixed at 35%, which is a pretty big hit at first. When Main1 first launched only 3-4 Syntis held out in the top 20 consistently.
However, this is more than negated by “swapping planets”. Work with 1 ally (or an alt account) and swap planets until you have Syntis + some other race on your major worlds. Build them up with depositors (city centers) and happiness structures and tax the second population 100% and money stops being a problem for Syntis. Ultimately I think we benefit more from this exploit than any other race because we can bring any planet to 90% land mass, giving us even larger populations to tax.
It breaks the game and ruins the whole economy but devs have been silent on the issue.
Oh, another possibility is that it seems like there are more Syntis than there really are because nothing stops us from claiming 45 planets pretty fast, making it more likely you’ll run into some Syntis player and his absolute garbage 43rd planet that he claimed just because he can.
Well I hear the dev’s have lots plans in the works to add balance things out and hopefully get rid of exploits. Like huge dual populations. Though it was fun to watch a Syntis player build like 10 colony ships on his first day probably helped by the fact 80% of the worlds were -10C or lower.
Which really would be balanced, I think, if not for dual populations. Syntis ability to immediately build tons of colonies should be largely negated by their slower growth rate and that 35% tax thing. They need 2-3x anyone else’s population to accomplish the same income.
But when you can quickly toss colonies everywhere AND THEN populate them with biologicals AND THEN grow the planet to 90% land mass AND THEN tax them at 100%, it becomes ridiculous. Oh well. Not for lack of us trying to raise that as a problem to be fixed.
Agree with most of your points but youre wrong about syntis at the start, only occupying 4/20 of the top spots, unless you literally meant the first week? After the first week they held all but 1-2 of the top 10 /20 for a long time because they could expand so fast. Regardless of duel pops they are a bit OP.
With regards to balence, the tech tree needs a overhaul once all prelim races are in the game. This would be the simplest fix. I would suggest something along the lines of the POE tech tree where all races start somewhere different and can gain ‘nodes’ towards achieving there personal tech preference. As an example syntis would be further away from the dual pop nodes.
Syntis players dont need to be duel poped. In fact they should not be, they want their planets to only have syntis, with the exception of mountain giants, and a tiny amount of econ and research planets. They solve the early game econ problems by getting an evo world, and any minor races they can find (yes you will still be weaker then other races at the start, but a single large evo world will give you 40k/70k once built with all t1/t2 cities). Besides MG and Evo, you want to abandon any world with another pop type once your econ is fine.
I do think syntis are stronger then other races, because of how corruption currently balances out. However as updates come this will change
Need more then a few credit farms to pay for everything.
This dual pop planet has 100 T2 depositors and 140 medicinal centers for evo and syntis make 7,100 credits an hour of that. There is a huge investment in organics that’s needed due to the locked 35% tax rate.
Which is how I think it should be. These Evo “luck of the draw” worlds are enormous money farms that people should want to murder each other over and it’s a big deal if you take one or lose one. But you’re not guaranteed to get a good one, or any at all.
Dual pop ruins it because who needs luck when you can just exploit your way to having dual pop worlds anywhere you want them?
I’m not sure why you say Syntis players “should not be” dual popped. I can’t think of a reason not to. Evolvians are easier but I could dual pop with Mankind just as well, especially if the planet’s natural climate favors them.
At the end of the day there are only 4 types of planets (for the most part).
-Econ (dual pop helps, however when a planet is making over 70k an hr you only need a few)
-Deep mining world (Dual pop hurts, unhappiness from mines is to great. It takes over 3 months to fill up a world with deepmines, no need to waste time on happiness and etc. This is probably the bulk of your empire)
-Strip mining world (Dual pop hurts, unhappiness from mines is to great)
-Research (dual pop helps however i tend to do this on my MG worlds because can’t use MG for the others. Also you don’t need many research worlds)
I agree 100%
I have proposed a middle ground of making main civ pops (not evos) movable,
but the best is to change it so-that only by conquering can you get dual pops
The current system definitely devalues evos and all other 2nd civs
Anyone who says Syntis is Over Power, simply doesn’t know what they talking about.
Syntis has disadvantages like every other race. Anyone who is playing them, IE. Me. Plus other who have done well, have done by Blood, Sweet and Tears. Quite literally.
Duel Populations are OP, period. IMO.
Mr T, I would imagine disagree. But if you make friends with everyone for duel population agreements max out income, etc… Then you don’t need to fight a war ever. This becomes a x3 game.
It is a lot of work, to build up the planets to max levels. However, if you building up planets anyway, it is not ‘hard’ work. It is just work. If you have deals with all your neighbours, then there is no threat of war. As everyone gains by duel pop credits and cooperation. PERIOD…
Yes Syntis can expand early. However that doesn’t help, that hurts Syntis. Week 2. I had 28 planets and 2 million population. Income was around 2,000 credits per hour. My friendly neighbor, playing Cats. Had 14 planets, avoiding the corruption barrier and 1 million population. His income was 5,000 per hour.
Ding, ding. TKO every other organic race on credits.
Syntis can overcome this. I literally spent a week spamming Depoistors / City centers. To help boost my income to a more reasonable amount.
Im not saying its easy, anything can kill a syntis player at the start of the game. A fly landing on your planet and poof your dead. They have sooooo many thing screwing them over at the start of the game and they compound on each other making it hell. I just saying they have the strongest end game, and seeing as this game seems to be all about end game, that makes them very strong
However today’s announcement just threw all that up into the air so who knows.
I’m still very new so I can’t comment on balance much etc. I will say that, as a new player, the Syntis seemed like an appealing choice because there’s two fewer factors to worry about, namely happiness and climate tolerance.
For me, that made them come off as more flexible in a way. You can just do what you want in terms of expansion without having to over analyze it too much. If you want a planet, you just take it. I think that’s an advantage for many players which isn’t necessarily reflected purely in game mechanics.
Yeah, once Syntis solve their money woes, which they can do with dual population (Evos or otherwise), they become a powerhouse because their high planet limit lets them mine resources (and grow population) like crazy.
This upcoming change will give other races pretty much the same advantage: they will have their amazing natural-born cash income and additionally can now build up resource worlds and then turn them over to the AI and then use the free slots for more resource worlds.
I’m thinking it will level the playing field a lot more. Syntis are on top of the Grand Emperor leaderboard, I think, because of our ability to crank out ships because we have so much resource income from all our additional planets. I’ve hardly bothered with deep mining because so far it’s been easier to just pick everyone up and plop them down on a new planet to mine up the easy stuff. Cheaper and faster than deep mining.
If you look at the “Economist” leaderboard, Syntis don’t dominate as much there but in a way that’s kind of the “Logistical Failure” leaderboard where being high ranking means you’re not doing a good job of balancing your income. The biologicals get all this money they can’t spend because they don’t have the resource income to match it.
Not sure I completely agree with your assessment their Slamz.
It’s close to the target though.
So far I think the balance is pretty close as is.