Synth 2nd popo decline issue

It looks like Synth are off again. I have a planet that the only thing not perfect is landmass. The mass is 56% so I can not use Hydros to move it up as PR.

If a colony is taken over landmass should not be a reason for the Synth to die off. I know there is tech Synth do to allow them to live but it should cause population loss when a different race takes the planet. It defeats the whole idea of gaining population during wars.

@Limpwad whats the planet temperature?

25 which is within range.

But its the upper limit. I have a similar planet with 53 % landmass and 22 degrees with a -5 pop per hour.

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I would expect them to die at 25… From 2 galaxies ago I was dying off at around 23/24… on base syntis stats… so you’ll never get them to grow on that world…

What would be useful would be to set the desired temp and water per colony and the related buildings would migrate the planet to that ratheer than the race desired amount…

@joe… is there any reasons that meaens we cant get that?

@joe as a general rule whats the chances of getting a pop up when building climate/Hydro stations on a dual POP planet IF the construction or upgrade of same would cause actual population decline like this?

The mysteries of the Hydro/Temp algorithm I can accept IDA wants to keep it to themselves so we players have to guess and learn and (oh heavens! Consult the Wiki!) but an in game:

“If you do this your slave race will actually die!” message isn’t unreasonable…? I’m pretty sure @MentalElement was posting recently about this very same issue so its not uncommon

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This^

I was surprised to see that being 3 degrees under the max temp for syntis was not enough to counter being almost 40% off perfered land mass. I am very much ok with this, however, I would also like a bit more clarity. I kind feel like I’m blindly feeling my way through a dark cave.

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I think this would be a good addition.

I also think environment suitability for 2nd populations needs to be clearer. For the primary pop, you see the colour indicators for environment. For the second pop, you have to work it out. One option I can think of is to rework the popup when you hover environment. Remove the resources info because you can see it on the screen anyway. And use the extra space to show environment suitability for both pops (or one if there isn’t two). There also needs to be something on the population screen that shows the temp/landmass colour coded to indicate suitability for that civ (like what is shown for the primary pop on the main planet overview).

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I don’t see why not, but it probably wouldn’t be in the near future.

I’m guessing it went into decline after being captured because the previous player had unlocked tech that expanded Syntis temp tolerance, which was counteracting the unsuitable landmass. If so, the only way to have the population not affected after changing owner would be to link the temp tolerance boost gained from the tech to that pop specifically.

Adding to this and in reference to your reply above: It is highly illogical that the moment you colonise a planet the population goes into a nose dive! I mean after a player abandons a world the pop freezes right? So how can you justify its decline when another highly advanced space faring race makes land fall? I mean sure if you start boogerign about with the planet via Hydro or Temp stations yeas of course. But if you just arrived? NO! As polluting as we are as a race we don’t insta kill who eco systems quite that badly! (No it takes a coupla decades to light the suicide fuse see recent climate evens!)

Basically if a previous owner has raised the native pop up and you don’t shift the planet they should at least stay at that level!

That, or they should naturally decline back to their sustainable levels at a set rate after a player leaves that planet. That’s just as logical and in many ways a lot fairer…

The max planetary population counter and growth rate could use the same “!” as the happiness. The “!” on happiness tells you exactly what the number comes from: +1.0 base, -1.5 because of taxes, +2 because of infrastructure, etc. And then the infrastructure screen breaks it down by building. We know exactly how happiness works.

I would like to see the same thing here. Growth rate base +400 or w/e, -75% because of temperature off of ideal, -35% because of land mass off of ideal, +8% because of infrastructure, etc.

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I like the theory, but I hope you meant with those % a maximum for the environment being radically off ideal yes? A staged progression seems a bit fairer to me.

Is that what you meant?

Really I meant “whatever math they are actually doing gets displayed”. I have no idea if the current formula is based on % away from maximum or just some points table or what.

I think the big thing would be treat that planet as if the original owners tech still applied. The caveat would be as soon as you start to change things out side the prior players tech it would see the declines. Almost like the planet inherits the original players tech once they colonize it and the new owner needs to ensure they do not go outside the bounds of that tech or they do see the pop loss.

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Why would tech apply? What other special tech abilities should be given to other races? Ripchee beams? PR torpedoes? Syntis 90% landmass? Syntis have issues keeping most of the organics alive will that change? Do players want easy mode of farming races or hard mode when you can’t planet swap to gain points on a leader board.

On a tech tree that has no limit, researching another race’s tech at 1/16th the pace pretty much ensures that no player will acquire much of another race’s tech but still allow them some of the more minor advances.

That being said, the more special items such as mankind’s instant ships, ripchee’s pop per planet mass, and syntis 90% landmass should never transfer between races. Research similar to the one that allows syntis to live on a wider temperature range should not be granted to other races (only the syntis you control would receive the benefit). Other race’s tech trees do not open up unless that player has conquored a player/homeworld of that race.

I see what your saying. The moment a player makes changes to a carefully balanced planet that benefited in the past from another tech then all bets are off! Let the population nose dive sure. But I think it not wholly unreasonable to at least let the new owner prepare to catch the sudden downturn by not immediately introducing it on conquest but instead delaying it till they start disrupting the planets status quo.

As for cross pollinating your Tech trees. Not generally in favour of it either. Maybe later if you capture a ship you can keep using any specials it has but you cant repair it so eventually you’ll loose that specialist resource. I could just about go for that but not a lot more.

If we could all buy Synt Hydro stations then mid to late game we would for the added population!

No to cure that, the mechanics of Hydro Balance and Temp as they impact Racial growth need at least one more balancing pass. It may be very “Meta” but its a terrible shame that getting a Synt player to Hydro adjust your fave planets to 90% is actually a desirable thing. But that’s really another thread perhaps…