Snithereal Physical Strength

There’s a bug report about Snithereal invasion troops having x1.6 strength (instead of x0.8). I thought it was a bug too, but after discussing it with a dev it turns out it’s working as expected (but wasn’t documented).

The current description is still correct for Snitheral troop strength:

  • Defending an invasion: x0.8 against ALL civs UNLESS bloodthirst is activated to boost it (needs a 2nd organic pop to activate)
  • Attack (invading a colony): x0.8

But, Attack strength is only x0.8 against Syntis! Against organic civs it’s x1.6 (a fixed offensive bloodthirst). The original idea was that Snithereal would be vulnerable to Syntis because they can’t eat them.

We propose:
To leave Snithereal’s troop strength as it is, but nerf their unique power armor a bit. So they’re better suited to ground defense and invasions than fleet combat.

What do you think?

1 Like

Categorically NO!

Loose the power armour and nerf our shields? = Unplayable. What needs to get dialled down is the offensive boost. Drop it to 1.2 or 1.4 vs Non Synts by all means. Now if you want to drop the Power armour a bit and dial up the shields a little (but not to standard reinforced level ok) Having Power armour equal to Reinforced shields is already NOT as good a shields in many cases as you have to fly away and repair whereas the shields come right back between fights.

Why on earth do you guys get a bug report then want to “fix it” by changing something unrelated to it.

Just nuts totally nuts!

5 Likes

Without the super armor I wouldn’t have had any chance against my Ripchee invader :slightly_frowning_face:

Edit:

Only on planets with a second pop.

3 Likes

My concern here would be that in the late game, it’s all about bombardment so defense stats don’t matter so much. You’re giving them an advantage with an expiration date.

4 Likes

Very true. x4 Syntis defensive troops are 6.0x, and that’s a great deterrent against invasions, but orbital cannons don’t care.

Are snake ships even good with their armor? I thought they had the worst hulls in the game in general? (havent fought them so idk much about them)

There “OK” as is. Can fight Ripchee one on one so far. (Not Saber groups) they seem to have smaller amounts of slots so we need that armour coz we already have nerfed shields (Only T1 shields allowed) The current armour is as good as reinforced shields But as I say it needs repair after a fight shields don’t so its a slight bit worse already

Its been well observed IDA don’t Nerf Syntis as they like them the best. All other races over the last few years start strong and get nerfed behind the Toasters asap. This will be the same you watch…

I completely disagree, armor is far far far more important then shields. The only reason to have shields currently is for a safe guard vs bane weapons(or early game when energy weapons are actually good). However this may change depending on the new energy weapons coming out soon.

Armor is always useful, shields are only sometime useful. Its why you get more shields then armor per slot (at least normally)

Generally agree. But when you start with a lot less than some…

And as I said we don’t get those shields you rightly praise. Hence my counter proposal to allow a nerfed Reinforced shield for Sniths if you take down the armour slightly. That would prolly compensate OK.

i think its very very wrong to balance factions by giving some poor space combat but good invasion strengh. there should be not a single faction that is just bad at space combat, they should just all be different so they use different ships/tactics/loadouts. its just that the current ground warfare only comes down to numbers, while in space you can beat someone with a better tactic/loadout vision and such.

the way troops are produced and transported is very very good in this game already but the actual ground battle is very poor, i drop stuff and then its just waiting some hours and see my numbers vs their numbers, there is absolutly no way to have an influence on the outcome of such a battle other than the numbers i bring.

i dont get it why ground warfare is always so poorly implemented in 4x games, when its basicly all about planets… but how to capture / defend them is just some number game.

3 Likes

Not wrong there Slamz why should i invade you and mess up my corruption when i can bomb you out of existance. As a big user of bombing i think that needs nerfing big time

I think the reason that there is no way to influence it is simply because they dont want to give the guy online and advantage over the guy offline. Hence why there is no interactivity on battles flet or ground battle

The amount of time, and resources, involved in bombing is already extreme. You want to make it even worse? I mean 20 hour build-time cruisers, ammo, mid-late game tech, support ships, time in orbit getting hammered by ODS (and potentially enemy ships), repair times, it goes on and on.

2 Likes

I am with @Teeo on this.

My first, so ‘called’ OP Syntis Cruiser tying to use Energy Storm Weapons against a T3 ODS was a very big let down!

Till I figure out @Teeo bypass Strategy of this, was a complete waste of time.

On a Deep Design Development note. Do we wish to have a way to ‘cheat’ any system in the game, if there is one? Or do we wish to have a Strategic way to defeat this?

1 Like

I haven’t found a repeatable bypass strategy. Your ships will be targeted, and they will take damage. Plan accordingly.

[derail]
The only problem I see with bombing is that, like mines, “there are no brakes on the bomb train”. I’ve had one planet bombed out of existence and it was a minor planet with low population, 1 T1 ODS and yes it took the enemy a fair amount of time and effort to kill it, even being such a weak planet.

…but nothing stops them from bringing literally 50 bombers and pretty well BTFO anything.

Kinda like mines in the sense that “oh 5 minelayers, this is perfectly reasonable”, not considering what happens when people show up with 30+ minelayers. Bombing starts off perfectly reasonable but there’s no practical limit on how far it can scale up.

We might need to do something about that, though I’m not sure what.
[/derail]

Practically speaking the fleet limits ultimately stop the bomb train, at least with the approach I’m currently using, but if you’re willing and equipped to have a lot of your ships damaged every round, you can battle through that.

But that only really matters for planets with a lot of ODS. One or two? Yeah, whatever. Bombs away. And you can pretty much go unlimited on those, 14 at a time. Again, you’ll have repairs, but with enough of them it doesn’t really matter.

Not sure I can.

I can upgrade a Cruiser to last 27 minutes of damage. Yet Cruiser needs 50 minutes in order to fire a Energy Storm weapon. As all ships in the fleet take damage. Just results in me losing ships unnecessary.

Send them in separately in a lot of different fleets. They can only shoot at one fleet at a time, so if you sent them in for example, 12 fleets to bomb the planet, at worst they can only drive away 2 before the other 10 smacks a round into the planet.

Yeah, thanks.

Rereading through the posts. I figured that might be the way to go.

So, thanks for confirming that.

However, this just raises more issues.

Seeking answers for a helpful, Strategic healthy long term game.

  1. Do we really want this to be the way ODS works? Considering we can ‘cheese it’?
  2. Or is this just a game ‘strategy’?

Not to mention the fleet cap issues, especially if your talking about Syntis whom has fleet cap handicap.