Rethinking Outscape: Resource generation

reduce the density of resources by 1 for every T3 deep mine of that resource. Therefor the maximum amount of deep mines that can be constructed is limited, and people like to run spreadsheets to calculate the best possible setups. Also the T2 mines have 0 value, they should get the deep mining feature aswell aswell as t1 mines to make it much easier for casual players to get resources even though they dont log in every day. Especially for casual players, there needs to be lot of stuff generating resources without actually playing the game. However currently its the other way round, its T1 mines require lots of micro and activity to strip mine planets while T3 endgame stuff doesnt require any further action.
so basicly we need more steady income for less activity at T1 (casual players) and much less steady income but much more activity at T3 (hardcore players)

So i ran some numbers on those resource changes i suggested, on the Awaken the Dark server, a T1 Deep Mining Rate of 18 would get a nice solid income of 1800 resources / hour for casual players with 100 mines, that mining rate of 18 cannot be abused with spamming 400 mines as that will only get a deep mining income of 7200. I suggest a T2 Deep Mining Rate of 36 -> 100 mines 3600 or 400 -> 14400. With -1% density for T3 mines that will result in a max of 36000 resources / h on a 99% density planet with a changed deep mining rate for T3 from 360 to 720. To make stuff more interesting T3 Mines could reduce the density of ALL resources on the planet -1% so people kinda need to focus their planets to certain types of resource production, making it much more intersting during a war to find certain key planets to either siege or capture in order to stop certain resource productions. Also my -1% density change has the nice side effect that high density planets get much more value as the max production of a 99% density planet would be 36000 / h compared to 9360 / h on a 50% density planet.

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I don’t understand your math at all, how would a planet with -1% density get any resources

Also what are we meant to do with planets if you cant build mines any more? The only thing you can do with pop is make more mines (and ent centers to keep them happy).

guess like:

before)
T1: strip=1008/h, deep=0/h
T2: strip=1260/h, deep=0/h
T3: strip=1260/h, deep=360/h

after)
T1: strip=1008/h, deep=18/h
T2: strip=1260/h, deep=36/h
T3: strip=1260/h, deep=720/h (*)

(*) “each” T3 deep mine building consume “all” kind of the planet’s resource “quality”
ex)
B=69%, F=99%, L=45%, Z=None, O=25%
–> any kind of T3 mines makes these qualities to
B=68%, F=98%, L=44%, Z=None, O=24%
so if you make this planet dedicated all to F deep mines, you can build 99 T3 F mines.
(or otherwise you can build 68x T3 B mines, or 44x T3 L mines, … etc)

so this change has some effect like: (1) dedicating a specific kind of resource is reasonable, (2) high quality is far more valuable than at present

casual user can easily (one mine can be built at 60 seconds that produce resources in a “casual” rate like 1800/h by 100 T1 mines) make solid income

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recursive formulas wont ever work. Besides it being misleading for the players to understand, its horrible for the server performance.

Making t2 mines useful could be nice, but id rather them just be removed. It would make the building queue easier to manage.

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Although I agree that resource generation should be reduced for massive amounts of mines but your change would also slow it down for lower amount of deep mines. The easiest way to slow down massive amounts of something would be simply add a soft cap at around 50 deep mines, that will slowly decrease the speed for additional mines.

Awaken is supposed to be the speed server so why would you argue that the speed server needs to slow down? Isn’t that for the slow servers?

I would not play this game on the slow servers and I think even Awaken server needs to speed up, it is supposed to be the speed server.

Maybe what you suggest would be something for a medium speed server because speed servers should be for people who want to play it on as fast as possible.

my suggestion is actually a soft cap of 50 mines.

with 99% density the highest mining rate one can get is at 50 mines. basicly half the density is the maximum amount of mines for optimal mining.

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Maybe I misunderstood but didnt you say you would reduce the density for every 1 deep mine? That means that if you build 2 deep mines then they would reduce the mining from what 2 deep mines mine right now.

Ergo it is a reduction from what it is now.

yes, thats the whole point of it as the current mining rates are insane, unless ship costs are increased by 10x the income needs to be reduced massivly.

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The curve of production rate is quadratic. So optimal point is the center of the edges between 99% and 0%, that is 50%. ( the production rate formula is (0.99-0.01(n-1))*n )

I think personally that deep mine is a relatively difficult feature to well balanced in the dark server.
Something infinite reduces the fun of the game.
if any resource is finite, all players have to struggle with each other over planets where the precious resources are. and when entire resources in the galaxy are exhausted, the galaxy goes to game over.
I think this scenario is more reasonable. I like rogue like game. each galaxy should be just a short time (like one or two weeks) session.

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Id love to have a server without any true deep mines. Maybe just my suggested T1 and T2 deepmines with T1 9/h and T2 18/h.

I don’t agree. It is supposed to be the SPEED server and currently it takes what, around 10 hours to build a full DN BS fleet for a normal shipyard? That is not fast and if you ever lose a big battle and lose a majority of your fleet, then it already takes long to rebuild.

As I mentioned before, why would you play on the speed server and then complain things are too fast? Seems like you want slow it down across the board and that is for a slow/normal server.

If you want new players to be competitive to older one’s then the way to do it is by keeping it linear at lower levels and exponential at higher levels. This should apply for resource gathering and research.

But movement, fighting should be sped up as I want to play on a speed server so I can get something accomplished in a 2-3 hour gaming session. And another good reason for playing on a speed server is that if you lose battles then you are not screwed as you can rebuild fairly fast.

But MMOs are supposed to be perpetual. What MMO do you know where you go “Game Over” after a couple of weeks?

I mean imagine spending days to build up your empire and then have it Game Over and restart and then you have to do it all over again? Does not sound like an MMO to me and not fun to repeat building up from scratch over and over again. That works for games like Starcraft where it take minutes to build up. Not fun in a game where it takes days.

You are mixing resource rates with ship production rates, focus on one. Resource rate has nothing to do with how long it takes to build a fleet at a shipyard. And you can easily build ships at 10 or 20 shipyards or even 50. My suggestions have nothing to do with speed but spam of the most expensive ships there are to a point that even losing 50 fleets is not problem at all as it is so easy to replace them. Please experience the endgame problems first before you start throwing out wild theories.

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I think the short term galaxies can co-exist with the perpetual galaxies.

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What wild theories? You are the one that said that ship costs need to be increased and/or resource gathering reduced radically.

I like it the way it is with some adjustments such as exponential progression so that there is a soft cap when you have insane amounts of mines.

Being able to produce ships quickly is good imo. That encourages fighting and risking losing fleets.

Absolutely and that is why there should have different servers. But a server where things progress fast should not automatically mean that the game goes “Game Over” after a while. How you deal with those things is to have exponential progression and feasibility to come back from losses and rebuild, perpetually.

That is how 99% of MMOs work because people don’t want to spend time building up their characters for days, sometimes weeks, and then have to do it over and over again from scratch.

did you even read his stuff? “Game Over” being all resources being consumed… so a soft game over and not a hard game over nothing is possible to move anymore.

I really dislike debating about that. I agree with your opinion how the ordinary MMO works well, and I’m never denying those who are not willing to rebuild the stuff from scratch.

I’ve just proposed another way which couldn’t work well for the majority of the ordinary players, but I personally want to play that at least.
Alongside, running many galaxies fast enables many chances of try-and-error for balancing stuff.

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I respect that. Alot of MMOs have test servers where everything is artifically inflated and sped up. Quite useful, as you say, for try and error and balancing. I hope though this will be a different server than Awaken as I quite enjoy how that server is setup and would never play on the slow/normal servers.