Planetary conquest must change-solution proposed

Thanks to the super fast galaxy, ive been able to experience planetary conquering from the perspective of the offensive player. My experience in m2 was from a purely defensive perspective. I think having had both perspectives, plus having played Dominions and wow at a high level of pvp, has given me some insight on fixing what is currently broken-planetary invasion.

In m2 i complained that orbital bombardment was too easy. That the planets should be taken via planetary invasion. That viewpoint isnt realistic under the current setup. Once a synthis player has tactical coordination, which gives his defense forces a combat rating of 6(more than a giant), an ods that reduces the invasion force by 50 percent, and 60000 or more troops in defensive bases, taking the planet via ground combat is nigh impossible.

In the current game I am facing that scenario. Canjuaan is synthis, has tactical coordination, has 67000 to 120k troops on planets with 7, 7, 9, and 11 ods. I bombed out the 2 planets that had 7 ods, but it was a painstaking exercise that I assure Joe few will undertake. There needs to be simpler solution, and that solution needs to evolve around the concept that games should be fun!!!

-----------------------Proposed solution------------------

  1. it must be realized, from the outset, that fleets of ships are the primary means by which planets are defended. Not mines, ods, or defense troops on planets. Those should be there only to delay the attacker a bit so that an offline player can log on and get his fleets to the planet and save it.

If said player has no fleets to send to save his planet, then you have lost. seed ships are a discussion for another day, but if your enemy has fleets of ships and controls space, and you have no ships, then you SHOULD lose swiftly. The epic space battles are over, and the attacker is merely “mopping up.”

A. ODS should be limited to 1 per planet.
B. Once 20 percent of the population has been killed through orbital bombardment, they will surrender. Think wwII, Japan surrendered after 2 nukes. They didnt hold out until they were complately wiped off the face of the earth. people on a planet will also rebel against the inept leaders who failed to protect them and surrender rather than face extermination.

so, once 20 percent of the population has been killed by bombing, an option box will pop up giving the attacker 3 choices:

  1. Accept the surrender. The planet then will become yours just as if it had been successfully invaded,
  2. Accept the planet’s surrender, but appoint a pirate governor who will run the planet at a pirate faction(you are planet capped). The pirate faction will have the planet, and be able to launch ships from it etc. A pirate planet can be conquered by any other player.
  3. refuse to accept the surrender and proceed with the bombing and exterminate the planet.

This will make planet conquest more rewarding in that an offensive player can get planet ownership through means other than an invasion. And with the limit to 1 ods, the attacking player will not have to go through the mind numbing exercise of gaming the ods system.

Some players will say taking planets should be hard, next to impossible to take. No. If you want to defend your planets build ships. If the enemy controls space, then you are royally screwed. All having 11 ods does is make a planet and 100k troops does currently is make the planet impossible to invade. And bombing with 11 ods is simply too time consuming and mind numbing. Trust me, casual players will not and maybe can not do it.

All the current system does is drag out the losing players defeat longer. and it makes the end game no fun for the offensive player who is reduced from hopping 1 planet to the next and engaging in a ridiculously time consuming process to do what is essentially a “mop up” operation.

Outscape cannot go live with planetary invasions “as is.” There is no endgame at present that anyone would be willing to endure.

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So you want easy fast wins for invasions. Because you can’t be bothered to work for it? Because you clearly said it’s possible to bomb a ods defended world into submission…

With 100 fleets and 24 planets, thats 4 fleets defending fleets per planet (I have to assume your going to have support fleets someplace). Stripping 1 from each planet to attack another player brings you to 24 fleets vs his 4. Fleets need to be the first and last defense for planets (used to keep an enemy from invading and to help remove the invasion) but it is the planet itself that needs to be at least 70% of the work imo.

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it isnt that “im bothered” to do it. it is pointless to make a player do it. and there should be wa y for me to capture the planet. destroying it shouldnt be the only option.

And no one minds “working” for a win, but unless youve ever done a massive orbital bombardment involving 30 fleets and 7+ ods, you have no idea how time consuming and tedious it is.

ODS are very easy to build. taking them out a 100 times more so. why shouldnt there be a balance? By limiting a planet to 1 ods, they still kill 50 percent troops that drop. that is a huge advantage.

Why shouldnt a player defend his planets with fleets? he should. if his fleets are dead, hes in trouble. he should lose a few planets.

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then he is leaving his planets defenseless, in your scenario. You could attack his planets and force him to withdraw his attacking fleets to defend.

point is you really should not post an opinion critial of mine unless youve actually taken planets with 7 ods, 100k troops with tactical coordination. Then you will understand what it entails.

Ive been playing the game since A2 and every galaxy since with only some recent exclusion. I am well versed in your problem and I am also well versed in the problem your problem solved.

Yes it needs a good bit of tweaks, but it doesnt need as much of a rework as you seem to believe.

I’m sorry, you think taking planets with 7 ODS is an accomplishment? You think that takes work?

Try taking out @Praetor 's nightmare fortress planets. I have. 20+ ODS, X4 codex, over 100,000 troops, over 1M population.

As for your actual proposal, I’ve heard worse. 1 ODS limit doesn’t really matter, 20 ODS can be defeated also. 20 ODS means you have to work for it.

Planets surrendering at some point also makes sense, and it fits with other games in this genre. It could also integrate very easily into the vassal system which is supposedly coming soon ™.

Invading X4 codex planets full of barracks is borderline impossible under the current system. Which is why bombing is the final solution ™ in the endgame. I’ve heard (I’m not on there) that invasions are even harder on the 10x crack server, due to the crazy rates of troop and population growth.

Some things to think about at least.

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ConsortiumCzar has told me he has taken planets with 20+ ods, but he agrees it is a nightmare in logistics. For this game to succeed there needs to be a way for casual players to do it, otherwise there is no endgame for them, they get bored, and quit.

Also, Joe said in his mining fix thread he is implementing something new for planet defense. limits attacking fleets to w1 when they enter system. so it will take hours to reach planets.

but in the end, if you fleets are dead, to the victor goes the spoils.

There is a real problem in AtD when it comes to offline defense. Namely there is none that is effective if you sleep or work.

Personally, I do not think there is a way for the existing mechanics to work. I have felt the pain you describe, but your solution needs some other compensation for the loss of offline defense. What we have deters casual gamers as attackers but not hardcore players who are committed. If you make it too easy for the hardcores, we’ll just see a lot of casuals get driven out of the game.

The only answer I can see is some sort of slowdown within system. I like the idea of a building you activate that slows down time for everything - fleets and your buildings. You then have the risk/reward of deciding if you want higher production or certainty of being able to respond to an attack.

I agree that invasions (and resource raiding!) are mostly immaterial now in AtD.

i think adding warp tranducers at low cost or free when you colonize a planet will help. that would allow a player to travel between planets at w9 without fuel, but only if the planets are within x lys apart.

The problem with offline protection lies in fleets. Leave fleets around your best planets. i would not be adverse to letting a player have a mercenary guard fleet for a max period of 8 hours a day to help protect them while offline. but that mercenary fleet should not be unbeatable, just powerful.

i just did my first invasion on speed. i invaded with 440,000 troops but only attacked with 110,000. did the single large orbital defense destroy the other 330,000 and if they did why wasnt i told? figured it wouldnt take long on speed to do invasion but after some difficulty that wasnt on the main server i found out i ts 9 hours. so 10x speed doesnt apply on the speed server because i know this would take 16 hours on main. so i wasnt online because i somewhat have a life and for some stupid reason there is no way to even guess how long it would take and i wake up and it says i colonized the planet.

its like i am playing a different game than all of u. u have these complicated invasions going on with all these complex numbers that arent even available to me.

obviously u experienced players have got used to a planetary invasion system that is totally broken, learned to work around the broken mechanics and are now just complaining about the mechanics that dont work in your favor. between this and your inability to put down your personal vendettas and stop with the petty immature insults i now understand why this game just seems to get more broken instead of anything getting fixed. its because the community is toxic at the top. nothing can succeed if its toxic at the top

The game has a sharp learning curve, we all know it, its in early access. There are a number of things that should be added to the game directly such as easier to invade pirate worlds and some kind of an advisor.

Its actually not total broken, just complicated and favours the defender. The majority of the outscape community is not toxic, many of us will even tell you how to beat the various strategies in use.

Edit: I have always been a strong proponent that in game functions should be easily understood/remembered because it reduces the learning curve. Most players want in-game functions that makes sense to them, and why not? They dont know what makes sense to you, they do not live in your head. Sometimes this complicates things and sometimes it causes arguments, but i assure you, there is no elite rule here.

its not fair for me to lump the experienced all together as toxic but they tend to stand out so forgive me of i tend to sympathize with less experienced players. u odis i most certainly dont consider toxic and it a good thing that i get to respond to a experienced player more level headed than me than a experienced player who isnt level headed at all because that is what usually happens from what ive seen in the forums.

i like your ideas but i have to disagree that not only are planetary invasions but the game in general is broken because of the lack of reports when offline. its killing it.

i have to disagree that there arent elite rules here. even if i could get an idea of how long an invasion would take before i start how can plan to be around with windows of 8 and 16 hours? i cannot be online between 8 and 16 hours after an invasion starts ever and neither can ANYBODY who has to work without a computer in front of them. so no blue collar worker can be online after he launches an invasion therefore no blue collar worker has the opportunity to even learn from his mistakes. ty so much for your last line. i wouldnt have even noticed there were elite rules here until u said there werent. this affects me less than most blue collar workers because im self employed but i still cant have a game running while i work.

lastly how do these rules favor a defender? the only complaints all of u have is that its too hard and not easier to take a planet and that its next to impossible. if it was realistic then it would be impossible and u would or they would be forced to destroy it or render it completely uninhabitable. if i wanted to take a defenders side the way all of u seem to take the attackers side i would say even you attacking fleets would have to die with the planet. i could be wrong but i doubt any of u put nearly the effort in taking these planets as they put into defending them especially with the dysfunctional building Q.

What I meant was that there is no ruling class. Outside of the devs, no one dictates nor controls the game rules. As far as an omnipresent vs casual player, yes this is at the heart of several issues the majority of the players want fixed because even the omnipresent players dont want to be omnipresent. The problem is that automatic functions arent that easy to code, and not because coming up with the code or function is hard, but because non of them are fool proof or easy. The noobie defense fleet is a prime example. Its a great test of such codes without incurring player losses and the devs know they are no where near a finished product.

The 4x defense buff, home guard, and the fact that the ODS does not expend itself in anyway unlike any other combat function in the entire game. Some players do want it easier, but many of the long time veterans have experienced something wonky with planetary combat and have posted questions about it. The devs are busy and havent gotten back to us yet about it, I assure you they are out there.

Yea the building Q is a bit dysfunctional, theres a post about removing stacks of items in it becauae when you accidently click to dismantle 50 of your planet’s lvl3 ECs, well its enough to make you consider abandoning the planet rather than to click to cancel. Yes it’s “easier” to build up the attacking force to invade a planet than it is to defend one because you only need to build 1 attack armada but you need a planned defense for every planet. Not all planets have the same degree of risk, but it is at least the attacker who risks more in his attempt as the defender should be comparable in strength when considering he has at least some home turf advantage.

Edit: I have offered up a system where the strengths of both sides would be quite dynamic, instead of the defense being a juggernaught, I thought it should be highly resilient. The post got no love. If you have a way to make it fairer, please make a suggestion.

Look at your homeworld, it has the same ODS as the planet that you invaded.

Anti-invasion rate: 75. Which means you lose 75% of your troops on invasion. That will be true for any T3 ODS you come across (which only exist on homeworlds).

As for how long it will (probably) take:

It’s right at the top. Estimated duration: 9h. 36m.

As it turns out, the 1.10 defensive strength indicator is a lie, it was actually x4.40, which is a display bug, but I lost this invasion anyhow. I don’t remember how many troops he had grown back by the time the invasion happened, but it was enough. The ODS in this case was also a lie, as it was disabled due to the planet rioting. Anyhow, it’s the only recent example I have.

With all of that being said, there are some toxic people on these forums for sure. I’m one of them. This is not an apology, heh. I speak my mind, some people don’t like it. So be it.

As for ‘blue collar workers’ not being able to play the game, you still have to sleep, right? So invade the planet with a 9h timer, go to sleep, and check it when you get up. Your 8 (or 12, or whatever) hour shift shouldn’t be a problem. If you’re working 48 hours in a row (some doctors do), don’t invade before you leave for work.

Notifications broke sometime before the last patch. It’s been reported, but not fixed. As this game is still in early access, that’s the norm, not the exception. We’ve all just gotten used to it, basically.

Invasions take a long time to give the defender a chance to respond. Typically by bringing reinforcements, which only the defender can do. If you bring enough, the invasion fails.

Bombing, however, can happen incredibly fast (compared to invasions). 30 minutes at the high end, and with enough cruisers, that may be all it takes. And no amount of ODS will stop that.

Have fun.

planet invasions are broken because once a player gets the tech that lets them defend at x4 str, has a ton of ods that not only kill 50 percent of your invading force, but fire every 3 minuted and damage entire stacks of ships. then the defender builds 100k defense forces. at that point the planet cannot be taken. it is impossible. it can only be bombed. (which means planet inv is broken).

So now we move on to bombing. one cruiser outfitted with orbital bombs at highest tier can kill 19000 or so pop, using 1 cruiser or 5 isnt an option, so most use 14 or like czar 28.

Why? because you have to split fleets and deal with massive damage from the ods. it requires time totally spent on the game. you cant walk the dog, and if you take a crap, better do it faster than 3 minutes. So you have this maneuvering of many fleets, i used about 30, to split the damage from the ods.

short version. you can spend an hour, 2 hours or more to bomb out a planet. and it isnt worth it. I refuse to do it. it isnt fun(which is the point of games), it is tedious, and you dont even get the planet.

sad thing is person whose planet you bombed can just colonize another planet and build it up fast with def bases and ods and it is a never ending engagement of pain.

there are better games out there. More fun, better mechanics, that dont require insane personal attention for no reward.

In the current skirmish ive already killed off everyone close to me, the only one left has no fleets to fight, but all of his planets have a lot of ods and defense bases. It really isnt worth the time to bomb out 48 planets 1 at a time at an expense of at least 2 hours, especially since he can colonize new ones while im working on his older ones.

I posted my proposed solution above. it isnt the holy grail. others may have better solutions, but planet invasions are currently broken. Broken in the sense they are impossible once a player has certain techs and defenses.

broken in the sense that orb bombardment is nightmarish against a high number of ods, which are easily built.

my 2 cents.

At that point invading the planet is i

when you start getting to 7 or more ods on a planet,

ty teeo. u helped me much so ill give u a little example on how to speak your mind and be even more toxic because ur clearly lacking in the toxicity department

the elite rule of no notifications if not online that odis pointed so clearly out then pretended didnt exist is by far the biggest problem i think with this game and every aspect about it. it has almost made me quit and i suspect that it makes the majority of players quit before they even start. so while u guys are all complaining that attacking isnt easy enough to take planets then grossly contradicting yourselves with your own statements the game bleeds players to the elite rule. dont give me and everybody else who arent elite a tiny window to fit in that we cant fit in and say we can fit in it. just get rid of the elite rule and get rid of the problem. i started playing this game right after main2 came out and the elite rule of no notifications if not online for battles has always been in effect. must be nice for the elites to downplay situations and create coverups like breaking notifications in general to pretend the elite rule dont exist. it does add a sense of realism but i think thats the kind of realism that people play video games to escape.

perhaps it is too difficult to take planets but its ridiculous to believe its easier to take them than build them u can take planet in hours but it takes days to build them and u still have to move all the people and res around which will take a couple fleets flying around while on the defensive. and wanting to completely kill off players is not a good reason to make taking planets easier either. if they dont quit when u take a planet then u probably cant kill them off and no amount of making taking planets easy is going to change that

Game has never been good at giving notifications when you are not logged in. And they are broken for everyone.

For invasions if you can one shot a planet with orbital bombardment while the planet is also being invaded you can take a planet in 30 minutes. Just about every planet can be conquered in a couple hours if you bring the right amount of firepower. Assuming minefields have been dealt with.

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Yeah, I wasn’t even getting into that ‘working as intended’ broken mechanic.

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