New spawn point

There have been tons of suggestions like this one from a year ago. I’d still like home-worlds off the map and become a save point and we enter with a starter fleet.

And just like we have now, someone could spawn in randomly, right next to a high-ranked player. Or, they may spawn into the random sector, right next to a sector FILLED with a single alliance.

This talk of Outscape not having the same sort of scaling effects seen in MMOs is due to the nature of the game. Typically, a player starts a game, has low level PvE areas to play in, then as they progress, new areas will become available to them. It is going to be impossible to emulate that sort of system in a game where we are building up territory over time. We can’t just move star systems out from a “beginner” area, into a more experienced area, after we hit a certain score/level, because any diplomacy from our starting area would immediately be rendered obsolete.

It is going to have to be either entirely random, as it is now, with the friend code option in place for those wishing to use it, or entirely sector-based, with players able to see exactly how many players are in a given sector, and their average score (possibly filtered for several different types of rankings, ie Grand Emperor, Master of Warfare, etc). But any form of mix-and-match system won’t really do a new player any good, as they still have that random chance of spawning in next to a high-level player, like we have, currently.

Not too sure about which arbitrary partitioning schema might be best.

Like the radial grid (polar co-ords anybody ?:). Like the idea of gold rush volumes. Like the readout of volume statistics ( … errr … what is this ‘hegemony’ of which you speak ).

Alliances could be visually represented with players choosing a spawn volume in relation to those. Some indication of players ‘too’ powerful relative to the new entrant would also be apropos.

Could such diffs be patched into the code w/o a reset. Is sin qua non metinks.

p.s. ty Llama Tic for your comments as input to above.

i do not agree with you. It is the problem that Outscape is in NO ASPECT designed as a MMO game. There is nothing but the technology to have a persistant universe that makes this game MMO! Every other mechanic/aspect is just ripped of a normal 4X singleplayer game. Its a good 4X experience but a very bad MMO. An yes oldschool 4X is not possible in an MMO because of the imbalances in empire strenghs. BUT it is possible to have a 4X MMO game, it just has to be created with the idea of a persistant universe in mind.

The best example is the faction selection, why the hell are there different factions without any way to change them later. its just c&p singleplayer 4X without the idea of a month / years long universe. different factions are a huge part of 4X games but you need to keep the persistant universe in mind. in singleplayer games you can just start over and over again while the basic idea of 4X MMO is that you do not start over again ever, you build your empire and grow and fight and grow and fight. so you need to be able to tailor your species at a later point in order to keep the experience fresh and interesting.

It will never be possible to fix the starting position problem with the current iteration of the game as no matter how good the starting position fix will be, player empires will differ in strengh and hence people will get stomped.

In order to fix all of this certain core aspects need to be changed:

  • no classic research tree that is linear but something thats horizontal so there is no gap between new and old players

  • ability to fight a big empire as a smaller one! the keyword here is fight not destroy. think of rebels vs imperium in star wars, they are not able to destroy the imperium but are able to strike at key locations

  • the ability to relocate your forces to an active place in the galaxy while not enabling rapid deployment as a tactic in a local war

  • player interaction other than destruction while balancing the multi account problem

  • remove total annihilation completly from the game. it should not be possible to destroy another player completly! it must be something like bajor vs cardassia, occupation instead of annihilation

  • no classic species selection as in 4X singleplayer games, different factions but the ability to tailor your empire while ingame, like factions in eve

  • an economy that does not start to spill over after some time, the income and expenditures need to be balanced in a way that the resources are a limiting factor at all times

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An MMO is simply defined as Massive Multiplayer Online. In what way is Outscape NOT an MMO? You are letting your own ideas of what an MMO SHOULD be, skew your perception of what an MMO actually IS.

That means a galaxy would contain just short of 105k players if every player’s initial territory would take them 1 day to cross. Many more players the more you shorten their space to encourage friction. I can’t imagine how long (or even if we will anytime in the next few year’s) it would take to fill a single galaxy.

I do not believe this would solve any issues being discussed in this thread as the players being added will need to outpace another player’s fleet to get there which literally means for every new ring of player’s, 3 more would have to join the galaxy every day in order to keep pace. An average of 143.3 players on average would have to join the galaxy on a daily basis in order to keep pace.

If the galaxy were smaller, say half that size, the number drops to 35.83 per day. If we halve it again, it becomes 9 and it would take 3 months to get from one side to the other at max warp.

But yes, a year to cross, I feel, would otherwise be reasonable except for the above.

@Rae I mean, many of those things, yes. But how?

Edit: my math is off by a factor of 2 considering I calculated the time to cross the entire galaxy instead of getting from the center to the outskirts, but I think that that would just further prove my point. However, i guess that number is more reasonable considering i did not calculate for dead space, nor the time it takes to research anything (which is too much of a variable for me to do anything with) so i guess the above numbers are best care scenario with a bracketing multiplier of 2 being worst.

why are there no 4x mmo games in the market? cause the problems i mentioned above are huge issues when it comes to adapting the core 4x gameplay that is singleplayer to a persistant universe.

Its not even the problem of bringing the 4X experience to the multiplayer market, most 4X games can be played in a multiplayer enviroment. Paradox while releasing buggy unfinished games somehow managed to make their games quite interesting for many people as a multiplayer title. And Civilisation is very popular as a multiplayer titel aswell.

The issue is the persistant universe, and its very very hard to fix the issues i mentioned above.

Just an example: the ability to completly destroy someone in Outscape is like playing Path of Exile Hardcore mode while hostile players that are level 100 join your session when you are just level 70.

edit: its way offtopic so i made a new thread

#1: Yes, we need more incremental steps in the tech tree, so that a few days difference in research, won’t mean an increase in weapons damage of 500%+, I will agree there.

#2: Would be solved by expanding the tech tree, and making initial research branches carry far less weight. In other words, no single research that can nearly double a single ship’s damage potential.

#3: I believe wormholes of a sort, are a planned feature, down the road.

#4: There are a lot of suggestions on the forums as to how to reduce the effects of potential abuse of multiple accounts. From removing secondary populations of major factions, entirely, to limiting their effects, to a singular max population on a planet, dual pops, or otherwise, or even allowing dual-population with another faction, without a second player being required. It remains to be seen, just which approach the devs decide to take.

#5: This would be solved with the eventual implementation of ‘seed ships’, that I believe is in the road map.

#6: I can see this being feasible, with research options, that would change resource output and such, similar to Stellaris (civics and such). But if they make it so we can switch from Mankind, to Ripchee, to Syntis, etc, that would simply be abused by building faction-specific buildings, then swapping out to another faction that is more properly suited to the environment.

#7: Yes, I will definitely agree with you here. I’m not entirely certain as to how I would attempt to fix the issue of credit income, but active players able to build up stockpiles of 100 million credits, certainly means that we need more things to spend credits on. Either upgrade costs for facilities need to scale more aggressively, or ship costs need to increase proportionately to the cube of the length. Better yet, some combination of the two. I can’t say I agree with building limits on a given planet, because that takes away the option of specialty planets. But we can make those high-end ships/buildings really eat into the economy, so we can’t queue up hundreds of deep mine upgrades, without even batting an eye.

seed ship is the easiest way to place a t3 vet next to a t1 nub. before the seed ship is added, its going to need a lot of rules.

also, something about exploiting the seed ship the very same way the friend code was.

Sick of saying it but why not stick to skirmish for a while ? ppl keep jumping into Main with no clue of how to progress fast etc. I learnt a lot my trial and error in Skirmish. less players to bother you as well. That said it would be nice for a fleet invulnerablitity for newer ppl as well as the rubbish 28 day planet invulnerabliity. I found ppl killing my ships on Main the biggest hold up over everything else.

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As far as I’m aware the devs themselves have stated that the galaxies are differentiated by play style and not by experience.

And from your “experience” how is that working out for you?

Not well. But experience gained in skirmish where I did not encounter vastly superior tech has not helped in main where I have.

Just did a reset a few days back and guess what. Two players home systems well within scanner range. Two players just a fraction out of range but their ships are all over the place. Then, four days later, ANOTHER player spawns in, again well within scanner range. Five players.

This seems really, really crowded.

Skirmish server?

Skirmish 2 yes.

I believe that server is supposed to be that tight. Its a fighting server I think.

o.k. ty for that odis.

Pretty sure it’s still the get 7 planets for new players server so you can join a main server.

Intent and usage are very different things.