More Details on the New Galaxy Changes

Hi everyone,

We’ve just announced that new Skirmish and Main galaxies are launching next week (see the post for details).

In that blog we also announced some new changes that are coming. And in this post we’ll provide more details of those changes for those of you that may be interested.

Improvements to Galaxy Overview

A new ‘My Empire’ tab is being added to the Galaxy Overview screen. In this first version you’ll be able to see clearer info on each of your colonies, adjust the tax rate, and view the construction queues. It’ll make it much easier to manage your empire without having to visit each planet one at a time and we’ll add even more functionality to Galaxy Overview in future patches.

Syntis fleet caps

A new technology will be added to the Syntis tech tree that will enable their fleet cap to be increased by 15-20 fleets This is to better balance the total number of fleets the Syntis can reach vs the total fleets organic civs can reach. It will mean Syntis can go up from the current limit of 74 fleets to 89/94 fleets. This is still below the 120-150+ fleets organic civs can reach, but it is by design that Syntis can’t reach the same level as organic civs.

Minefield laying and sweeping costs to increase

It will cost 3 times as much limbalt to lay a minefield and 2 times as much olzine to activate a minesweeper. This isn’t intended to ‘solve’ minefields - just to improve things even if very slightly by making mine warfare more expensive to engage in.

Minefields are one of the hottest community topics at the moment. We know they are causing many of you a lot of frustration. We didn’t have time to address what is a complex topic before launching new galaxies. But they are something we can - and will - address after the new galaxies are launched. A lot of feedback has already been posted on minefields. We’re grateful for that, and need to process it all and come back to you on it.

New Government Building + Credit Income Balancing

Each home planet will start with one new government building:

  • Each empire can have only one government building - but you can build another on any of your colonies if yours is lost or destroyed
  • Government buildings boost the credit income for that colony and increase an empire’s corruption immunity
  • Government buildings can be upgraded quite early to further increase income and corruption immunity
  • Corruption immunity will be reduced from 14 to 5 - but by upgrading the government building it can be increased to 17 (instead of the current limit of 14). We’re reducing it because at the moment players are introduced to corruption when they hit a corruption wall at 14 planets. They then have to spend a lot of time mitigating its effect across all of their colonies. Reducing the immunity makes players aware of it sooner while they only have a handful of planets. And the relative ease of upgrading the government building means players can still avoid the effects of corruption up until they have an empire of 17 planets. On top of that, making it possible to manage colonies from galaxy overview makes corruption easier to manage now.

Credits have been a real bottleneck for players in the early game. The credit boost from the government building will make sure players have many more credits available in early game.

In mid/late game players have more credits than they can spend. So in the new galaxies the income rate from credits will be reduced by 30-50%. However, this shouldn’t reduce the credit income in the early game - only the mid/late game. Because in the early game the income from small colonies is very low. Most of your income comes from the large home planet population - which the government building will now heavily boost.

Max Population Balancing

Planets with a single civ population will get a x1.4 max population bonus to better balance the differences between single and dual population planets.

For example, if a planet has space for 500k colonists, it can either support a single population of 700k (500k x 1.4) or a double population totalling 1m (500k x 2).

We’ve had a ton of feedback from you on dual population planets (this forum thread alone received over 400 posts), so thanks for that. This change is intended to strike a compromise between the various player opinions on how dual populations should work and to reduce the current imbalance.

Please note: government buildings and max population balancing will not be added to the current galaxies - only to the new Skirmish 2 and Main 2 galaxies when they’re launched.

Let us know if you have any questions or concerns.

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Interesting changes, not certain I like them all, but I’ll reserve comment until we see how it goes. Looks like two steps back, not sure how many steps forward until it’s put to the test.

@joe did you fix the distancing between players? If not, this will cause a problem for inviting friends to join if the process is still the same as in the previous galaxies. Also are you required to have them join you in the same system? Or is this assuming you invite them on day one when you join. Can you still invite them to another system later? If distancing isn’t improved, this will be quite “interesting”.

Oh, thats mean a big hunt on the newbies homeworld :smiley:

If things haven’t changed, they are protected from invasion for 28 days.

@joe if a HW is invaded what will happen to the government building? Same for gifting a HW planet? I see potential for exploit here if this isn’t made impossible to trade or acquire via invasion or gifting, even after the 28 days lol.

I re-read the post. Each Empire can only have one government building, so other than harassing another player, it’s useless to the invader if I read it right.

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In mid/late game players have more credits than they can spend. So in the new galaxies the income rate from credits will be reduced by 30-50%.

@joe, I am concerned about Syntis player ability with regards to this mid/late game credit reduction (30-50%)…That is Huge for Syntis’s nominal 35% tax rate .

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I would concur with this, the reduction should only apply to organics.

Does this new galaxy fix the bug that loses all of a players exploration results every time they restart their client ?

Syntis corvette is(?) going to need all ordinance to lay a top tier minefield…lol

Have concerns about how the nerf to credits will affect syntis as well. A boost of the 35% tax rate might be needed.

Also go big on the galaxy size so we don’t have a repeat of needing to add room.

Getting away from current spawning algorithm would be good too.

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Very exciting update! I love it! no complaints :smiley:

had a thought though… have you considered tooling corruption to affect credit gain instead of morale? if more corruption means a reduction in credits/ until your income nearly zeroes out, it can still act as a softcap to player growth

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It’s not a problem for Syntis mid/late game either. By then, you should have created (or invaded) at least one dual-pop world for purposes of taxes, whether that be from an ally, an enemy or some natives. That was already a priority for Syntis to achieve. I still have more money than I know what to do with. It’s just so much easier and faster to build a “money world” than it is to build the resource farms and shipyards necessary to spend all that money!

I frown more on the issues that the changes don’t impact the game’s core flaw, which is online vs offline play. More expensive minefields is nice but I was never limited by limbalt – I was limited only by time online and the number of ships I had to commit to minelaying. Limbalt is an infinite resource with deep mining. This change will mostly make it more tedious, as we will spend more time moving and transferring limbalt.

And the 1.4x population thing doesn’t seem like it changes much. Dual population is still going to be the only way to compete. Not only do you get 2x instead of 1.4x but dual population inherently grows faster. Gonna still be a whole lot of world swapping going on.

But maybe a reset will get more people to experience war. Looking at the Master of Warfare scoreboard for Main1 is still just sad. I’m still in second place even though I lost the bulk of my empire like 3 months ago? What in the world has everyone been doing?? But I can see a reset shaking things up. I’d like to see two or more big alliances really go at it. We can finally have some discussions about war mechancis with more than a handful of us actually having experienced offense and defense.

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Can we get a confirmation on if the spawning between empires will be different? one of the biggest complaints this time around on main1 was people spawning far too close together, or spawning far too close to older empires.

Alright @Slamz - let’s see what we’ve been doing.

Syntis have issues invading, once near planet cap we are extremely limited in our ability to invade. Especially, once players research the military codex. Once you have that you need about 100-200k troops, depending on your race, and you’re impossible to invade. Invading gives warfare score.

How to get around this? Bombing! Problem is, bombing is insanely high cost (I nearly ran out of limbalt in my entire empire due to a multi-week long bombing campaign), and yields literally 0 score! In fact, if you mess up and lose a ship, you lose score for wiping out an enemy planet. All bombing does is reduce an enemy player’s GC score. Bombing is the way to go as Syntis late game. We don’t get MoW score for it. I’m not the only one doing this, I know several PR players are doing similar things, but they’re bombing it low, then invading sometimes. I don’t have that luxury. I just glass it.

Short answer is: Bombing is what we’re doing at this stage, and that’s why our scores aren’t budging much.

Now, @joe I am concerned about the Syntis cap being purposefully lower than Organics still. The issue has been and will continue to be that we cannot compete against organics. Furthermore, the mine/sweeper changes are a pretty significant nerf to Syntis Vettes, which was the only aspect that we shined in (until Ripchee players get access to Sabers, then we’re doomed). Without utilizing aspects that have now been patched (and the insane score boost of dual-population), Syntis cannot compete in many aspects of the game. Grand Emperor, we have a disadvantage, Master of Warfare, we have a disadvantage because of our planet caps and fleet caps, Economist is simply not a leaderboard that Syntis should even bother looking at.

It’s really disheartening to keep seeing nerf after nerf after nerf to Syntis, and there just doesn’t seem to be a reason behind any of it. We don’t have the best ships, that would be PR. We don’t have the highest population, that’d be Ripchee. The only aspect we really shine in is that we can mine more per planet than other races. That would be great if the other races struggled to mine enough resources, and we were delegated to a support role for our neighbors, but that is not the case at all.

It simply seems Syntis have a massive disadvantage because the devs decided we don’t have to deal with corruption and therefore should not be competitive. It feels completely arbitrary, and is really disappointing. We have a great identity, but we seem to be constantly punished.

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I agree that bombing should give points, but it should be in Galactic Conqueror (the beating down of planets), not Master of Warfare (the beating down of ships).

The fact that scores aren’t budging indicates you are primarily bombing inactive players or those who are so militarily inferior that they posed no real fight to begin with. It’s good that you get no Warfare points for this. The real question is why so few people have found a “real fight” in Main1, and whether they will make the same mistakes in Main2.

Invading as organic is no easier anyway. You invade a new planet and suddenly every other planet in your entire empire needs additional entertainment centers. It’s still better to abandon as you capture (and only for worlds that are better than the ones you already own). Main difference with organics is that the “soft cap” lets them invade as an option and then pick up everything and clear out later if they decide they don’t want it. Bombing is still quicker and easier if you don’t want the planet, though.

The scoreboard doesn’t really support this, especially if we could rewind it to about 4 months ago, when Syntis started dominating Grand Emperor, which is a good indication of total fleet strength. (GE scoreboard today is less about who is best and more about who hasn’t gotten bored yet…)

As I recall the trajectory, almost no Syntis were in the top 20 during the first month of Main1 but by December I think GE was over 50% Syntis? I’d have to dig up my old posts on this. I recall commenting on it at the time. Syntis start slow but their ability to start rolling out massive deep mines without the need for entertainment centers is a real boon for ship construction. Even to this day, the top 10 Master of Warfare is 50% Syntis.

Great patch, looking forward to play on the new galaxies.

One thing I would like is the new main 2 to have more planet deposit scarcity. I want good planets to be harder to find and worth more to fight over. Maybe this is more appropriate to a veteran server, but the planetary deposits are too common and abundant in the current skirmish and main.

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I would like to point out, that with the mine changes, humans no longer have the ability to use T3 mines. Everyone else can deploy a single mine, except humans.

Also, this is a little precarious, since hermes is one of our better combat ships, so re-balancing it to carry more ammo could completely imbalance humans (as in removing something to give it more ammo could hurt humans).

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@joe I don’t think the solution, even short term, to the mine laying/sweeping issue is what IDA is planning to implement. I think it will just end the use of minefields, which will make some happy with nothing to replace them. Another band aid and a bad one at that. I’d leave it as it is, then implement a real change when you figure out what to actually do.

Although I agree with the intent, this is causing some issues, mentioned by the other members of the community here
As cheatle said MK frigates can’t lay lvl3 minefields anymore
Someone else mentioned that now for syntis vette to afford to lay a mine it has to have all its slots used for ordinance (however personally I don’t think we should have a w9 mine layer that can cloak)

As for sweeping as well, it’ll mean that Sinth (snakes), PR and mankind vettes will have to use 2 fuel slots (out of available 4, which one of them will be used for the module itself) leaving 1 slot for anything from ordinance for weapons, or a 3rd fuel module to be able to use w9 and be able to sweep, or a shield/or an armor

But can’t have anything more
Which concerns how vettes are intended to be played seeing now in 1 form (sweeper) for 3/5 civs in the game right now they will become a single purpose ship that can’t do anything else, and can’t defend itself from Tier 1 scouts anymore either (that can also fly at w9)

But I understand that is a temporary solution, to something that almost everyone in the community is complaining about
But I don’t see a need to nerf sweepers, not like this
As it is now sweeping isn’t too fast, but isn’t too slow either

WTF with this math?! This only works in the cases Mankind+PR. And I have no idea why in the hell anyone can make ineffective Mankind+PR composition.

While the true new meta is:
Cat’s 1400 vs Ripchee’s+Slitheren 1850 = Solo pop is not bad
Snake’s 1400 vs Slitheren’s+Ripchee 2176 = Solo pop is unaccaptable.
Human’s 1400 vs Human’s+Ripchee 2333 = Solo pop is unaccaptable.
Robo’s1400 vs Robo’s+Ripchee 2904 = Solo pop is unaccaptable
And don’t forget about x2 overpop. We donot shure if planet’s limit 1000 then solo overpop will have 2800 or 2000 limit (in last case all this change as good as nothing).

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