Invasion doesn't work properly

#1

Alright, here is the situation.
I am taking over a systis planet, which has a home defense force of 7k. I am a Ripchee. Guess how many troops I used to attack?

40k. Now tell me why this is not broken?

@deicide can confirm.

@mel @joe This is ridiculous, and should not be a feature. Not unless you introduce lieutenant which gains combat experience so that we can at least say that numbers isn’t everything.

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#2

So 40k won or lost? Ships can still haul in tons of troops, but planet populations have been reduced. So defense troops should be very strong.

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#3

40k lost. Even though it’s a 5 to 1 odd.

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#4

No orbital defense to pre-kill your troops?

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#5

Also were the defence structures upgraded? I believe that icreases troop effectiveness

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#6

Hello. Thank you for this report. In the nearest future we will change this to reduce rng with armies that have huge advantage/disadvantage.

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#7

@michael No orbitals

Corraidhin, the planet does not have any defense structures, and it is confirmed that the enemy player does not have any upgrades to troops which would increase their physical strength

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#8

@Noobperson That’s what you get for sending kittens against walking tanks :smiley:

Looks like an RNG failure as above.

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#9

Was gonna make a SPARTAAA joke then I remembered they lost…

@joe This is the sort of metric that’s really really important. I got asked in Chat last night about a similar situation and wanted to point the questioner to the Wiki but all the stuff there is massively out of date (I got a new project!!) but hard data like this would be ever so helpful. Wiki is for facts; Forum for speculation.

And yes I realise we are still in the testing stage where incidents like this throw up the edge cases and improbable results of the current system. But is there any possibility of say releasing the table of odds to the Wiki as one of your up-datable tables? So the text can remain largely unchanged but the actual formulas for battle can be updated by IDA as they solidify?

A small RNG to keep us guessing is fine but in a 5 v 1 case like this that at most should have resulted in higher casualties for the attacker not a flat out loss…

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#10

@mel @joe

Suggestion for Invasions…

Instead of a pure RNG factor

You add another value called Conscripts, these are basically defenders that are drafted into armies with minimal training, as such they have 50% the strength value. Instead of as much RNG of a pure failure, I suggest an RNG chance that your planet was able to draft part of its population towards the incoming invasion.

We would have trained Military via Bases
A National Guard or Paramilitary via Home Guard
A militia or drafted population via Conscripts

The larger the population the higher the chance that it gets conscripted. The total number of conscripts would add an additional 15% of the population at 50% the value of their race’s strength. This represents training, programming, organics/robots that weren’t designed for defense/fighting.

For every 100k population the chance of conscription increases by 5%

500k = 25% chance that you will face conscripts

So instead of all this RNG of just flat out losing, especially with massively overwhelming odds that just wouldn’t lose, we add in additional troops and casualties.If you have 4 to 1 troops, then you probably shouldn’t lose, 3 to 1 odds, 2% chance of loss, 2 to 1 10% chance of loss, and as you get closer in strength your chances of victory decrease to a maximum of a 33% loss.

Only a few times in a war do we see morale break horribly on the stronger side, or things that go against the stronger side, or the side with heavy momentum. Taking planets should be more of a sure thing than not, where you get invaders is whittling down their numbers, a war of attrition which costs heavily, generally for invading forces.

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#11

Technically they won as they stalled the Persian army long enough, and inspired the Athenians etc to join the fight fully. And at Thermopylea the Spartan forces lost ~2000, but inflicted 20000 losses. Spartans would literally laugh at being outnumbered 5:1.

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#12

Well pedant-ed that man!

Historical examples aside the RNG that would be used to simulate this in game would be massively unpopular I suspect. Far better would be to have a set table of odds with a small RNG that might only flip results on low to moderate chances. “High” chance of success should be 90% certain I feel. And “Overwhelming” rating ought to be a sure thing.

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#13

The defence upgrades could also increse the RNG range to a degree to reflect the ‘Spartan’ effect of dedicated, better fortified, better equipped and armoured troops.

The ratio of civilians/troops could negatively effect the RNG factor as more troops are required to effectively defend the populace. Attacking a pure barracks planet however should be borderline suicidal.

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#14

The plans I’d made for ground combat back in Trello would’ve allowed strategies similar to Thermopylae. Apply structure placement and terrain along with vantage points.

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#15

IGNORE THIS POST - (Unless you want a hilarious laugh at my expense!!)

Fact #1 Defender = Syntis
Fact #2 Attacker = Ripchee
Fact #3 WHAT TEMPS do they like on their planets that I ignored…
Question: Can YOU figure out what this silly old man just did :crazy_face:

For the records planets were at --3 & -6 Ambiant temp.

All I i Might HUMBLY request of our Gallant DEV team is that invasions like this might carry the same PSB as colonising a world outside your comfort zone at the most.

Thank you . /Zath out (to take his meds)

Original Post kept for posterity and as a cautionary tale:

Resurrecting this worthy thread rather than post a new one.

Had an “invasion” complete overnight. Well all defenders dies but the planet did NOT become mine its just went neutral with the players race becoming a free standing secondary population; presumably loosing ALL the buildings

This happened TWICE in the same system where there are a total of 4 planets (home-world +3) so BUG!!! Or if its something the player (whom I though had quit skirmish @WarCross ) did then it needs explaining as thats tens of thousands of troops just vaporised for no reason + 12 hours of time etc etc.

Any thoughs @joe @mel ? This was a Syntis players start system that they had not apparently left since skirmish start but had grabbed three of its world already.

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Thoughts on Invasions and Raiding
#16

@joe I see the old “invade and the planet goes neutral” Bug is back:

Just attempted my third try at Triballoi D in skirmish. Its instantly reverted to neutral (IE the player lost control of it) So I have to colonise not invade: Can you check in case it was the known bug?

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