Fixing the ODS cheese

Suppose ODS did this:

  • Anti-invasion % as now
  • Fires against orbital bombardment ships (and only orbital bombardment ships), basically like now
  • New ability: buffs friendly fleets in scanner range (the inner circle) by a % fire rate.

e.g., while in range of any T1 ODS, all of your ships get a 10% bonus to fire rate. Does not stack. You get the highest bonus of the highest ODS you are in range of.

Optionally this could just be a new building. (“Command Tower”)

ODS for orbital defense is just another online vs offline thing. My enemies almost never attack when I’m online (even though they play then, too) partially because it’s easier to cheese ODS when I’m not around, which removes it as a factor in orbital combat.

If it simply provided a fixed buff, there would be no cheesing it and it would provide a reasonable defensive buff. I think the buff should be relatively minor (10/15/20%, maybe, definitely not “100%”) but a “nice to have” when on the defense and works just fine when you’re offline.

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this doesn’t fix ods, you just have the old problems with an aura added.

Defenders need more advantages, personally not a huge fan of this aura. Id much rather they go with more interesting suggestions . However if they did go with this i wouldnt complain.

There are problems with auras, like not being able to see them, or how to know your enemy has them.

We can display minefields, I’m sure we can display auras. I also favor “defensive buff” over “building that shoots ships” for several reasons:

  • Ships can’t shoot back at buildings, making it a one-sided exchange.
  • You have scaling problems with ODS. 1 ODS is nothing but 40 is ridiculous.
  • Again my general mantra of “this should be a fleet battle game”, not a game of being shot at by buildings.
  • You can’t cheese it.

Turning the defensive advantage into a % aura of some sort fixes all of those problems. It only applies to things that can be shot; it scales with the ships; it’s a fleet battle advantage.

(And I would go with “fire rate buff” since that should be less problematic than a damage buff or, say, armor/shield buff. Fire rate is pretty straightforward and always beneficial to every weapon.)

The problem I can see is then your defences need to work in tandem with fleet, so for planets without a shipyard, being camped on becomes possible. In fact, for planets with no/low farsu, you can park on it and siege it out. once he runs out of farsu to spawn ships. And if camped on, you can only spawn ships one at a time, not have a fleet level spawn to hit.

This is something I actually think we should be able to do, though: assault a world and then camp it. Or just camp it in general. It’s yet another online vs offline problem this game has:

If I’m sitting in my underwear in my mom’s basement eating Cheetos all day and can physically camp out for the duration of my assault, then I can stop any troop reinforcements you try to send. If I’m a normal human being, I can’t, because 1 ODS will kill any fleet I leave in orbit (in fact, I’m loath to leave a fleet even if you don’t have an ODS. You might be building one.)

By making ODS not fire at ships (unless bombarded) then normal players have the same chance as no-lifers. Not quite as good, of course, but it would be safe to leave fleets parked in orbit of hostile worlds which would attack your transports if you tried to send them. You must beat my fleet with your fleet to run me off or reinforce the planet.

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The big difference is the cheetos kid is camping OUTSIDE the orbit unless he is actively bombing the planet and the big difference from that is that any new ship construction can be formed into a fleet before attacking. In orbit camping means that the ships will suicide individually for minimal damage against any attacking fleet once built, which means that your planet really gets locked down.

I’d say the ODS firing at ships is ok as a concept to “get off ma lawn!!” and give your ships space to deploy and form up.

Doesn’t seem like a realistic concern. In order to do this, you would 1) have to be Mankind 2) have to have a huge pile of resources sitting on the planet and 3) have to have the cash for an instant conversion from resources into ships, which raises the question of “why didn’t you just do that before he attacked”.

Otherwise all Cheetos Kid has to do is drive through your orbit once every few hours to see what you’ve built and then blow it up.

Cheetos Kid can lock down your planet today.
Normal Player can’t because Normal Player logs out for 16 hours at a time.
I want to bridge that gap.

(Although really, even Normal Player can stop you from putting a fleet together, unless, again, you are Mankind sitting on a huge pile of resources. 16 hours isn’t enough time to put a real fleet together.)

Personally, I prefer a shield system that a fleet has to pound on for about 24hrs before anything can be done to the planet. Of course this might mean the ODS sniping has to go but the wait time will allow someone to get online and maybe do something before something nasty gets done to his planet.

Unfortunate part to this is that it becomes a competition of who is richer since it usually means the one with the bigger fleet wins. Usually at the expense of a poor newbie.

Yeah that’s why I want some sort of meaningful, non-cheeseable, defensive bonus with sane scaling.

ODS is meant to be a defensive bonus, I think, but the cheese breaks it and also it does not scale well – like mines, it can go from “too weak” to “wtf” based on how much time you spend on it and I don’t think automated defenses should scale up to crazy extents like that.

We could work with the current ODS – make a bunch of adjustments to it until it works – but I think it would be easier to just re-imagine it.

What do we want? A bonus for defenders.
How can we do that? Fleet buffs.

Making direct damage scale in a sensible way just seems too hard to nail down.

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It fires against every ship now. Not in a predictable way, either.

If you want to restrict what it shoots at, for whatever reason, you need to include troop assault ships as well.

I want to eliminate ODS shooting at ships, except bombardment, because it resolves the “cheese” problem by simply getting rid of it.

ODS never shoot at troop transports anyway because anyone with any sense is cheesing them.

I mean… do you really want assault ships parking in orbit for 9 hours? I don’t.

Not sure what you mean. The way it works right now is:

  1. Lord Cheeto sits there and waits for any reinforcements to come in
    or
  2. Normal Player has to log off, can’t stay in orbit and can’t stop reinforcements

I’m open to other ideas on how to resolve this rather huge difference between Lord Cheeto and normal people but allowing normal people to blockade a planet by parking in orbit solves it. Then you have to deal with him and Cheeto in the same way: bring a fleet big enough to kill him. Cheeto maintains some advantage here because he can see it coming and run away but Normal Player can at least have the option to attempt the blockade overnight or not.

So you can get a player down to a couple planets and camp him and force them to reset completely vs the planned game mechanic of a seed ship that retains some level of progress when you have been completely captured.

Devs need to have counters to people who just want to grief lower rank players.

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That can happen now. (In fact, it is happening now, really. I have planets I can’t get to anymore and they don’t have farsu to build anything with.)

But the seed ship should happen if you press “quit” too. I don’t see why it wouldn’t. You could be sitting there for 3 weeks waiting for an enemy to finish bombing/invading your last planet. It would be ridiculous to not get a seed ship when you decide to tap out.

And again, I’m open for other suggestions on how to resolve the online vs offline situation here. If we can’t fix stuff like this then I don’t see a future for this game.

It is happening and not allowing ods to shoot all ships in orbit is a nerf to defense.
We need targeting options for the ODS not removing it’s ability to target everything.

We also need an ability to nuke our own colony into oblivion if it’s being camped and isn’t recoverable.

And a seed ship if you outright quit? So you are all setup to take over a player and he just hit’s quit and gets a seed ship and a good bit of tech to start over. That’s not gonna sit well either with allot of the player-base.

The ODS cheese are easily fixable, just change the target behavior.

priority list:
1 bombarding fleet
2 oldest fleet
3 rest

Actually ODS totaly ignores fleets with hight threat, which in my opinion is a misbahavior.

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How is this any different then just mashing “quit” and getting a seed ship then? “So you are all setup to take over a player and he just nukes his own colonies and gets a seed ship”. Getting a seed ship shouldn’t be so amazing that people are in a hurry to quit at the first sign of trouble. (Also, seed ships have their own problems, like where do you put this player? In with the other new spawns? He’ll murder them with all that tech!)

Not sure what you mean by ODS targeting. Remember I’m trying to solve offline problems. Manual targeting is not a solution we need. My enemies never enter an orbit until they’re pretty sure I’m offline. I don’t need targeting. I need a useful effect that works when I’m offline.

And ODS does not.

Easy enough to not allow you to nuke your last colony to leave just like they did with the friend code.

And you do know they want the game to send out notifications to players when they are offline of something in game that needs attention right? An email would be all it takes these days for most people.

That’s not a solution. I’m not going to wake up at 4:38am to attend to my system being attacked. Nor am I going to log into the game at 2:30pm while I’m work.

Notifications and manual controls don’t solve the problem. Unless you intend to only market this to people who have no job and don’t mind waking up in the middle of the night for a video game notification, you’re going to have to accept some real offline solutions.

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