Coincidence or something new?

So set up a colony just now and was surprised by the growth rate:
Can anyone confirm that this combo exactly and precisely is growth neutral for Humies? Or is it a glitch?

Thought I’d report it before putting in a Hydro station etc. Will report if that changes anything when I finish it.

EDIT: @joe Not adding a separate bug but I confirm I do not see a notification anymore when a message is posted in chat.

EDIT2: Completing a Hydro plant started my growth to +40/hour. Interestingly the furries dropped by 80 pop/hour DESPITE the fact the Hydro plant moved the available land mass closer to their optimum! Where is the logic in that! I made an “improvement” that s both races should have liked and have a net LOSS of pop increase as a result… This game has so lost its way logic wise…

Thanks for the report - I’ve created a bug for it. I’m not sure whether the original issue with 0 growth for Mankind is a bug or not - it does look to be - but reducing the growth rate of Ripchee after building a hydro adjustment station in this scenario must be. I’ll post an update here when I hear something on this.

Add this to the report @joe I built a second Hydro which should have had much the same effect as the first IE More pop for both races effectively. As you can see the Rips aint moving though the humans did increase by about the same amount?

The Ripchee needs more farms in order to grow, they are at their max.

Oh I see, the calcualtions for a secondary Population bear no relation to the land mass of the planet! (See Wiki article here) I didn’t realise that (Probably because such flagrant illogical inconsistency is my Kryptonite!)

Oh well that explains that one then thanks Morri

(Glares at Joe & Co for another Logic Bomb in the game…)

It’s a fairly small planet, but if you look at the max population allowed for the Ripchee, I’m sure there is room for future growth once you have the tech for bio farms researched. My guess is if you bring the land mass up to the mankind optimal and as long as the temp is also good for Ripchee, you’ll be able to have decent growth on Ripchee to a fairly sizable population.

I’ve just had a look at this planet and the population limits look correct. To increase the 42.6k Ripchee limit you’d need to build a bio-farm. The planet max population for Ripchee is showing as about 199k and 133k for Mankind which is in line with the formula (have to click through to the population to see - for some reason it’s not visible on the toolip on main planet management screen).

Thanks Joe I get it now. But am still struggling with the concept that the land mass has NO bearing on the maximal sizes for secondary Populations as it does for main ones.

If 42K was the assigned max with no Bio farms in place then with the starting mass of 15% (Half a Ripchees preferred) woulda expected it to top out at 21K (IE 50% ideal Land mass available = 50% Max potential pop before modification)

Its fine, i get it now just… cant think WHY you did that as I think my initial desire to whack the Hydro balance a reasonable one. Had the Pop been calculated with any logic it’d make sense!

I must see if I can find a maxed out secondary Pop on a 1% land mass planet! That’s a screen shot for the scrap book waiting to happen!

It does have a bearing on the max size for the 2nd population if you track the change from when you first colonized the planet to now. The max population allowed for Ripchee has changed since then, but you need bio farms in order to grow into it.


But did you not take my point about the ridiculous (but theoretically legal) example I cited above?

If the planet is half as desirable to a life form currently, then does it not follow its maxima should be similarly adjusted by its variance from the desired optimal stats for that race?

No? Ok maybe its not needed. As I say I now see this is a process alien to the way I think. But that is perfectly acceptable in a game I am not designing, they can do their own thing of course!

I do fear however such actions of apparent arbitrary designer fiat, will prove off putting for more than just me in the long run. A drift from what I consider simple Logic is a great way to introduce exploits and glitches as you are designing things not to work in a way real life logic leads us to expect. Thus, you cannot as easily see how they can be warped by a creative bit of play.

Never mind. :wink:

Or if thought of differently, the original race on the planet built enough farms to sustain itself given it’s limitations, however did not count on another race taking the planet and expanding it’s available population so it could sustain more. Thus the need for bio farms in order for Race #1 to grow again.

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Interesting counterpoint. Very logical.

But in such case wouldn’t that imply a max sustainable cap on all races combined with the ability to build its own farms ensuring the Player race would get the advantage?

I like your idea very much. Planets can only be optimised so much and that degree of vitality would perforce be split among all its inhabitants (Subject to Tech [Farm] limits). Right now the system means you will always get more pop in total from a dual race planet which as you say is counter intuitive?

I agree with you. As it’s currently designed with the proper conditions a dual race planet will always allow more total population than the same planet with a single race. Possible exception might be combining syntis with ripchee given their wide difference in tolerances.

The slightly disturbing thing this leads to to my mind is the Genocide question…

We always had calls for Syntis to be able to wipe out Organics as they couldn’t do so much on a world that had them… Now that’s been at least partially corrected with Bio Farms and Organic EC and so forth, but it still begs the question:

Minor races have some inherent advantage to a player that might be useful. Player races not your own just do not…

So “Logically” many invaders would eliminate them or similar in a real life situation. To make sharing a world with a player race desirable or at least neutral (as right now its a disadvanatge if its anything as we have just proved) Races - especially player races; need more diversity in abilities/techs some small part of should be transferable to the Player that has a colony of them?

I’d favour a Tech boost on Techs that are that races speciality but I’m now digressing from my own thread (LOL) So maybe another time…

Excellent thoughts though sir! +1

The only real advantage they provide currently is a workforce that can take on the tasks of supporting the infrastructure of the planet. This allows the conquering race the ability to build it’s military which is race specific.

Indeed. This is also true of “Minor” races which also have some kind of buff in addition.

Consider: If you were Human and had a secondary Pop of PR would you not realistically put them into the military… as they are 10% tougher? Plus as they are not the “Master race” cannon fodder is what there good for LOL (Sorry evil overlord gland is acting up) But no such logical option is yet discussed.

Its a pipe dream. The DEV crew has more than enough on their respective plates I know, but see how easy it is to extrapolate a buncha possibilities just by following the logical & consistency chain with references to how folks react in the real historical world? (Yes I am pushing my agenda again! Shoot me! :smiley: )

Roll on the next update!

The 0 growth rate shown in the first image of this thread turned out to be related to rounding rather than a calculation bug (it was something like 0.005 so shown as 0). I’ll get it changed to show as “<1/h” or something to indicate there is still growth it’s just very, very slow.

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