Can we talk about this? [Opinion] Fleet debris limits combat opportunities

Fleet debris limits combat opportunities.

I’m going to slap an [Opinion] on this right at the start because people are going to disagree with me here, and that’s alright, just hear me out.

I think the idea of fleet debris is a nice idea that adds a level of strategic depth to the game, but the problem are the cons that come with that strategic depth. If I’m in a war with someone far from home, then because of fleet debris I have to be extremely careful when I engage in combat. I cannot skirmish with an opponent on equal footing with me, without giving them an advantage over me, due to the fleet debris system. Allow me to explain.

The reason for this is actually relatively easy math. If you operate on the assumption that 10 nearly equivalent fleets engage each other, and both sides lose, say, 5/10 of their fleets, then there will be 10 fleets of debris (5 from each side). However, once the combat is over, since this is in defender territory, the defender will just pick up the debris, and use it to rebuild some of their lost armies. The exception to this, of course, is if the offender controls the defender’s airspace, that is to say, they’ve won an absolute victory.

Certainly not everyone is going to bother to care if they’re not coming out on top of a skirmish, and you won’t care in every situation (an overwhelming starting advantage), but in near even wars, which are often the most fun since they’re not one sided, this does, in my opinion, pose a problem.
In these close wars, you’re only going to have a single large-scale battle rather than battles spread out over multiple days. It’s simply not in your interest as an attacker to spread out your attacks and weaken your opponent over several days of fleet to fleet combat because they will always get the resources and come out on top of those skirmishes.

Some people may disagree with me on this, and say it adds a level of strategic depth to the game, it gives the defender an advantage, etc… I agree that it does, I simply disagree with the cons of it. I would argue that this strategic depth is overshadowed by the fact that it inhibits fun gameplay. I think most people would rather have fighting spread out over multiple days, even large-scale battles over multiple days, rather than a single all-out battle committing every fleet they have that’ll end in a matter of minutes. This is even more true in planet combat since if the person on offense doesn’t take the planet and can’t hold it with all that debris there, well, to put it bluntly, they’ve doomed themselves.

The way I see it, although it’s a cool feature, the cons outweigh the pros for me personally. I think if we want to keep the idea of fleet debris from player fleets, we should just send it directly to the player’s home world (sort of like we do with credits), not have the system at all, or find some system that allows for debris without discouraging skirmishes over several battles.

image

TL;DR: Fleet debris is a neat idea but discourages multiple skirmishes over several days with a player and instead forces an aggressor in evenly-sided wars to commit to a single all out attack which ends in a matter of minutes. We should either remove or change the fleet debris system to encourage rather than discourage multi-day skirmishes.

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas on the subject feel free to comment below. This is part of my “Can we talk about this” series of forum posts. Feel free to check out the rest and share your thoughts!

2 Likes

My opinion, only ships/fleets that are destroyed in planet orbit leave resources that is transferred to that planet. Everything else is lost in space.

It would reduce the micro, also the server would no longer had to track hundreds / thousands of debris fields.

This is actually a good thing because it gives you homefield advantage and is actually even realistic. If you wage war in a foreign land then there should inherently be a greater risk as you are far away from your supply/salvage line.

And even if you removed debris fields then, due to the way combat works in this game (over in seconds), then people would still go for one big attack to break your opponent. Reason for this is that building ships has been increasing in time and cost over time and as such it makes it so that the best way to win a war is to have a big decisive victory from which your opponent cannot recover in time.

I do agree that a long drawn out campaign would be a more fun and rewarding experience in a war but perpetual warfare is sadly not the way this game has been designed. You need to break your opponent and drive him away from the game to win, which is yet another design flaw for a game that is supposed to be an MMO but in many ways is designed with the mindset of a single player game.

1 Like

I like this feature, it supports the defender, it somewhat mirrors supply lines…

It should be part of your attacking strategy to have the ability to capture debris as you control the space as you progress

Id be one of them

Standing toe to toe with some one in an all out bloodbath is not strategically wise… A defender may have full docks, I think this add great depth, securing debris is very important and should remain…

I think lack of debris would hurt the attacker more… surely a consideration is to grab a planet as a platform and use debris to grow control…

I could support reeduction to 20% resources maybe its not nothing nor is it everything its part of the equation

2 Likes

I am more or less in favour of the way it is now. I have been in favour of being able to hide small ships inside the debris fields to perform ambushes and such that the defender could not simply go and fetch without some degree of fear that they’ll get nabbed.

To help the attacker out, along with several other things, I always felt that all ships should have some form of an optional cargo hold. A very small one, but still present and optional, like an internal slot on an AC in Armoured Core.

Instead of picking between armour, shields, ammo, and a generator, pick between turn speed, logistics support, +1 to fleet limit size, +100 to fleet radius, extra ammo, lower upkeep costs if that ever comes back, some kind of anti-weapon defense, ECT.

There are other ways to incorporate this, but this would be the basic idea.

Edit: Oh, and debris fields should have to be mined for full loot. Idk what that means of if a time limit would have to be added, but as it stands, the mining module is absolutely useless late game.

2 Likes