Basicilly impossable to take/bombard a planet from an online player, and literally impossible if your syntis

Im going to assume i don’t need to explain why invasions are impossible

Syntis with only 92 fleets literally don’t have enough fleets to take over a planet, if the other person is online, and the planet is defended. With enough ods syntis cant even take your planet if your offline as there would be no way to tank the damage for a full hr once the ods count gets above their fleet count.

Now putting syntis aside, your going to need like 300 full str combat fleets to take planet, 10 of which are bombardment fleets but probably want more encase you lose any. But you also need a force that can fight off any fleets in the area along with support fleets, which means your probably looking at 400+ total. Due to having to fight off 32 enemy fleets plus what the shipyard pumps out, with your fleets at <10% hp your probably losing a few hundred fleets and if your lucky you take a single planet. However most likely sending out 20 fleets when all the attackers fleets have no hp remaining means bombardment gets interrupted. Which means the attacker will be forced to fall back making 0 progress while losing a ton of fleets.

During all of this you also need to re organize all your fleets to control ods targeting, which is extremely tedious

Attacking someone when they are offline is boring also, so not really a good solution

None of this is fun or good for the game

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The most funny thing is that u guys didn’t even give a try to bomb planet with zero beron stockpiles and just ODS that were builded beforehand while have combined forces of 3 big shots leading by #1 fleetowner. SO well this is not suprise when we recall that traitors are usually are cowards as well.

?? why would someone try something that only succeeds if those 32 docked fleets where all non military?

Also did you only comment to personally attack someone?

I’m not so stupid to teach traitor were is their mistakes.
Moreover overall topic is wrong and incorrect.
Basicilly this possable to take/bombard a planet from an online player. While obvously this is really a hard one task If that certain planets were specialised and well prepaired exactly to counter bombing. This is a strategy game dear fellows. If u wanna to achieve smtn u should use STRATEGY! damn yeah strategy! But looks like those ones who only knows how to build farmville have no idea what the termin strategy means and knows only how to believe in the numerical advantage.

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On the other hand, attacking people when offline, is just a matter of flooding orbit with enough tanks to absorb the bombing damage and seeing as almost everyone is offline more than they are online, it seems appropriate to balance bombing for when people are offline.

Neither is spending hundreds of hours building a colony to have it bombed and taken away when offline sleeping/working/whatever. I have seen several people quitting when that happens and that is completely understandable.

Why do people assume that taking planets should be easy? Seeing as colonies take so long to develop they must be hard to destroy, if at all possible.

How many successful MMOs have you played where taking people’s main assets is easy? Specially when they are not even online? Compare that to the MMOs where that is not possible or takes a concentrated effort from groups of people (i.e. Eve).

You are not playing against an AI which will keep coming back after setting it back over and over. Real gamers will quit when they realize that they just spend weeks building up colonies which can be taken away in a couple of hours of being offline.

Now that being said the ODS mechanic is fundamentally a bad mechanic as it does not give offline players possibility to react. It should be more like invasions where you get 12-18 hours to react and if you don’t defend it, then bombing should have similar difficulty to invasions. More so I would say because with invasions atleast your assets are still around where as with bombing it is gone and with it the hundreds of hours you spent building/waiting for it to develop.

Bombing being hard is good for the game as it attracts and retains more people. Conflict in persistent MMOs should not be about wiping other people out. It should be a tug-of-war of fleets fighting over easily renewable resources.

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Are you arguing with me? Because i dont think offline planet destruction is good. Granted iv been so burnt out on this topic i didnt really feel like going into details. I just wanted to throw another ods/bombardment/invasion thread on the pile, and how it kinda makes war impossible on the current server.

Also i never saw anyone mention in past threads but the bombardment timers doubled this server, which is why things became impossible this sever (also the armor nerfs dont help ship hp but thats minor). Tanking 1 hr of ods fire, fighting off 32 fleets while at <5% hp, holding off reinforcements, dealing with shipyard spam during the bombardment, multiple ways to reset bombardment timers, and etc. It hits the point where unless your dogpiling a player you cant take planets and if you cant take planets there is nothing else todo

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I think we are agreeing more than disagreeing. Bombardment/invasions when online is hard, likely too hard, but when offline bombing is easy, although tedious since you have to split 50+ tanks to counter the 50+ ODS.

But how to solve this? My ideal solution would be that offline invasion should be hard, next to impossible, but online it should be doable, but still hard as you are still talking about taking a big chunk of someone’s time and effort. Bombing should be changed to softening up the planet for invasion/raiding and then change ODS to only reduce bombing damage, like for invasions.

That way an invading player can bomb troops and barracks, then land the troops and, while waiting for the invasion to complete, blockade the planet as ODS will no longer do any damage to fleets. The defending player has then still time to break the blockade by sending his, and/or allies, fleets to break the blockade and save the planet from the invasion.

But defender should still have some sort of homefield advantage, otherwise larger more powerful empires will just gooble up smaller more casual gamers.

This is only true for when people are online and most people are actually offline. Balancing a game for the minority of gamers which will be able to be online 24/7 is a very bad thing for the health of the population and, in an MMO, is all about the health of the population. An MMO with only such powergamers will be an MMO unable to sustain itself.

And the “nothing else to do” is a content related issue. MMOs should have content not related to wiping out other players. There is after all three more X in 4X. As I said before, conflict in MMOs should center about fighting over resources and not wiping out other people because they will quit.

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Ods needs a cap and to hit all fleets again. Bombers need a cap to how many can engage and the damage they deal.

Might be that bombers should have to take out a new specific defence building group with a week long rebuild time to proceed with an invasion because glassing a planet is no longer possible.

Waging War on a planet should take days not hours.

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Disagree. U a not sponsor or producer or owner or main developer etc. That is why we cant say what is should be or what is should not. Lets IDA makes another crap and we will see if it will works good enough so we can fun and praise them if they considentaly succeds.
BTW now I can assume that current version is far more fair that it was in start alpha 3 when they change the game with limiting number of colonies and fleets and were u can lose ur builded by monthes planets in less than hour by saber’s assault.

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So you want fast instant gratification and not a goal to get in game and wage war on a daily basis in order to defeat someone?

IMO, Fast gameplay should be more PVE orientated and PVP should play out over longer periods of give and take with territory conquest.

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Indeed. Fighting other fleets should take hours, minutes but fighting over planets, a big investment for most people, should take days and allow you to react when offline.

I personally find it much more enjoyable to engage in fleet combat than planetary bombardment and would like that to be the bulk of eXtermination in Outscape. Fighting over planets should be a group activity, like in Eve, where tens, sometimes hundreds of people, fight many hours/days to take over outposts/stations. Why? Because those things, like fully developed colonies in Outscape, are huge investments. Granted they are even bigger investments than colonies but they are in the same ballpark.

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Multi-colony planets, mapped zones for structure placement and ongoing ground campaigns are all concepts interwined and neglected. These are vital to generating mechanics for balanced, strategic and engaging struggles over planetary investments.

Planetary combat and bombardment as they’re currently implemented ought to be drowned out by fleet combat. Eventually we should see ground campaigns, orbital and atmosphere tactics, drone warfare and hopefully even cultural conflicts become just as significant as fleet combat.

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Taking planets shouldnt be impossible or easy. It should just take a lot of time. I agree with yamota about the planets taking too much time to build up only to be destroyed in one night.

Split each planet into multiple cities. Depending on the size of the planet, you can have 3 to 10 cities. Each city is centered by a city center in which has 5 levels instead of 3. Your government building will serve as the city center of your homeworld or whatever world its on. Each level city center supports so many structures. City centers of level 2 to 5 will have city wide shields. While the shields are up you are immune to invasion, until a bomber fleet takes them down. I say a level 5 city center will be able to tank 50 shots from orbital strikes. So youll need 25 ships (with 2 LOSC cannons each) to take down the cities shields. This is for each city. If your shields go down, they come back up after 1 day.

When attacking a planet, you can send a scout into the planet to scout the planet. Your scout is subject to ods fire, unless youre using a cloaked corvette. The more ships in the fleet, the less time the scouting run takes. Using ships other than scouts or corvettes will make the scouting run take longer. If you do not scout the planet, your invasions and bombings will target random cities. So with the cities shields, all of their shields collectively can tank multiple bombings from multiple full fleets.

Once your scouting run is done, you can now choose which city to invade or bomb. You can launch an invasion and take the desired city, and that city will no longer be accessible to the enemy player. You can now build structures there, scrap, upgrade. You can leave the planets orbit and decide to build up more troops. Your fleets are subject to ods fire from the enemy cities, and his fleets are subject to the ods in your city. When you decide to invade another city, you can use the troops trained in bases, while also dropping more down from orbiting fleets. Troops of the enemy city will take advantage of the military tech for 4x strength. If the enemy decides to invade to take the city back, your troops take advantage of the tech.

With the 10 cities on each planet, and the 12 hour invasion timer, it would take 5 days to take an entire planet. And it would take 500 LOSC shots just to take down the shields of a entire planet (or 50 shots to take down shields of one city, and you invade with planetary troops)

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Include both an atmospheric zone and an orbital zone over each of these colonies. The campaign to topple it all should be a grueling gauntlet of resistance.

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They are easy with few ODS, challenging with lots but not impossible for syntis… just require organisation… and time…

I’m not going to explain how to achieve this, thats down to you.

I agree its too low for Syntis… Syntis need a proportional amount compared to the max an organic with dual pop can achieve… I havent played an organic race for a while so I dont know how many planets you’re able to accumulate with a high dual pop. but lets say its about the same as syntis max… then 60 planets with 5 is 300 fleets against 92 (3 to 1)… and the rub here is that if you have 10 transports, 10 assorted corvettes, 10 campaign fleets (bombers/troops) you’re down to 62 fleets… if the same were true of an organic race then thats 270 free… that tactical ratio is now closing in on 5:1. so its unlikely a syntis player could win 1 to 1 against an even level player… In a fleet orbit battle/bloodbath, no one can react, no one can repair which is where some small advantage can be had for syntis. The numbers rule…

I’m thinking whatever the max for a dual pop then syntis at 75% of that, or just let syntis have buildings for fleet control and add 1 and 2 fleets per tier and do away with the intrinsic values from the research…

You need to do the same work managing your attack, and who wants their opponent online, you’re doing it wrong if you cant predict a player to be offline. Though I favour allowing a defense to be managed by a colleague if you are offline.

I should also say that an invasion is not all about that one assault… you cant just steam in and expect an easy ride you’re taking something someone else built over weeks, it should be hard, there are a lot of factors, ordnance, more troops, reinforcements, repairs.

The new guard zones and inability to lay minefields also gives me ideas on what else we could have as “rules”.

  • cant siege (bomb/invade) another planet in the same system if another is occuring… a 12 hour invasion gives time for a player to come online…

  • no one can deploy a guard zone if it overlaps another, cancelled if another is finished before yours, (protects the incumbent, over a later agressor, since its easy for an agressor to grab a planet and build a guard zone preventing a defensive minefield, this is more important as lack of minefields makes it easier for alliances agressing)

I dont think in general an agressor needs any more help but the defender does.

add new stuff like

  • deploy an interdiction field, to slow enemy fleets to warp 1 (2 LY radius).

  • ability for alliance member to take control of planet orbit and deploy anti invasion forces… 60 minute drop time…

  • ability for agressor to regain a lost orbit and deploy more troops (only if ally deployed anti invasion… so if player anti invaded 3 times same agressoor can drop 3 more times… show battle progress updating each hour… maybe invasions take 3 days…

Indeed. The only reason invasion is so difficult is that, because of ODS, you can’t blockade a planet which you have invaded and prevent reinforcements to be sent. Remove the ODS issue and invasion is as hard/easy as it should be. More or less…

This is just another sign that this whole ODS/Bombing issue is broken and needs to be reworked. I am guessing the devs are aware but due to priorities haven’t been able to tackle it yet.

The thing with Syntis is that the whole faction is out of sync with all the other factions and hence why you have an imbalances and will continue to have it unless Syntis are put back in line with the rest.

I mean they got superior ships, superior planets (due to 90% terraform) and being able to ignore happiness is h u g e. This is why the majority of the top 10 are Syntis, despite their fleet shortcomings.

Remove that shortcoming and Syntis will dominate all. Much better to remove their quirks and make them like the other races. Bad design decision to have one faction that is so markedly different from the rest.

lol

Stopping invasions are the easiest thing in the world, assuming you log in from time to time. Simply transport 100k or 200k troops in the crazy amount of time you have to respond. Or hell just build a bunch of barracks on the planet, they take 5 hrs to stock up on troops (i think). If invasions worked people would be using them, and yet no one does.

I do, because player interaction is good for the game and fun… If you don’t want to interact with other players you might as well being playing a multiplayer board game solo. The whole point was game design decisions and balancing shouldn’t be based off of player needing to attack people when they are offline.

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What crazy amount you have to respond? People have jobs/school and a life and can’t be online 24/7. You want invasions to be like bombing where you can bomb someone in 1 hour when they are offline?

The time it takes is fine, what is not fine is that you need to be able to guard your invasion by having fleets in orbit preventing reinforcements but you can’t due to ODS.

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Well yes ODS, its a great thing… Its there to prevent it being too easy for the attacker… If you could camp there then an alliance sends 200 fleets and well they win… 50 bomber fleets and annihilate the planet…

It NEEDS to be harder to take a planet… or game will haemorage players…

Its huge because you dont have the fucking micromanagement nightmare that organics have… nothing to do with planet size… 300 vs 92 leaves around 180 fleets vs none… and months to get back on track… Ships are not significantly better that 92 can take on 300… and given not everything is a war ship thats 60 vs 270…

They balance based on normal play but this game is never played normally, planets will get swapped aroound to get double pop which places organic fleets levels on at least a double footing… Syntis cant leverage that for more fleets… These are major issues that wont go away, trying to balance diverse system it exceptionally difficult…

cos of micromanagement… most give up playing organics and try syntis and love the simplicity… IDA lost huge player numbers stubornly sticking with corruption…

They dominate now cos everyone else quit playing organics… who wants to take a new planet and have to add entertainment to 50 other planets… its just the wrong path and we told them over and over at the time…

That said if we start a perma galaxy tomorrow that lives forever I’ll be ripchee as will everyone else… the other races are just so far behind right now… I wouldnt risk them… My attention to detail in that event would be extreme and I’d take the corruption headache… There is nothing to fight for in these temp galaxies. So syntis for now… I do want all races balanced hence my opinion

I agree the quirks needs to be removed, balancing quirks is tough… they should of left the game like alpha 2 and just made the alliance features and not wasted the majority of the last 2 years… Sadly we’re not where we wanted to be and I feel we’re close to being done…

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